[Slc57]

Okay I know this is a subject that has been touched upon before but I really want to get my feelings out with this. Halo a project started by one of my favorite software developers Bungie, was called "A third person shooter done right" Bungie was a very impartial company, the release dates were almost always the same Mac vs PC, and they took as much time as they needed to get the games perfect. They were always trying new things, keeping games fun by not following the crazes that fo though the game industry. Taking ideas and putting new spins on them. So recently when Microsoft bought them I was worried at first but I figured they would not budge in, they would just let the devilment continue and get there game for the X-box when ever. Boy was I wrong! I just got my newest issue of Next Generation (a gaming magazine) with a huge feature on Halo. The thing that amazed me most was at the begging in huge type was the line that made me very pissed. "Bungie spent over two years working to make Halo the best-looking game ever -- then the developer threw away its graphics engine. With only seven months left before launch, can this game become the signature Zbox launch title Microsoft needs it to be?" It later goes on to say that they could not keep it in the 3rd person adventure type format, because that would not work on a counsel. There is one thing I think Bungie would have never done before, totally change a game that has been showed and hyped as on thing and change it to another. Now originally we were gonna be able to fly ships, explore, drive, sniper, and all kinds of things, but it has been dulled down to a first person shooter, that also has you drive around with some other guys shooting. This is a TOTALLY different game then it started to be. It says it all in the heading to this article, they threw it out, and not it is something else. I always liked Bungie's innovation, how in Oni, it was more then just a 3rd person run around killing people, you had to think more, use fighting skills, and many more things. Yet not even that was the finished product is was met to be, many levels were cut and a multiplayer feature to get it out the door in time for microsoft. Man I am just very disappointed in this all. There are many more points which I would like to bring up later but I am just to tired right now, so till later thank you for listening to my rant...

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Alex Cuter

[Gametes]

I used to roll my eyes when teachers would tell the class to use paragraphs; I thought it was stupid to tell us to do something so obvious and natural.
oh well...

[tonton]

Marathon rocks.

[Archangel]

Welcome to a world ruled by MS. But, hey, at least you're a part of Le Résistance!

Yeah, if they really did dumb down Halo for MS, I'll be really pissed. I still have my hopes up.

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I got a yellow slinky from Outpost.com

[itim55]

The MS purchase was the worst thing to happen to to Bungie in it's entire history. I believe that MS is going to dilute the game to a boring hunk of mediocre blather.

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I know, I know, I'm just a rabid fan.

[tonton]

So the Bungie guys who leave after this fiasco make a new game that is how they intended Halo to be. If M$ doesn't let them make the game they want to make, that's not stopping them from making it anyway.

[Elvin]

Good rant Alex, you made some good points....now I have a few too...

I would agree that Bungie is veering off from where I was hoping it would go. Halo is starting to not appear as it was originally aimed to please.....it’s just not the same to drool over scenic landscapes and beautiful skies from 1st person...I wanted to see the entire world from 3rd person. Fancy that it's being changed to meet the xBox interface...the reason MS bought Bungie.


I was even disappointed by Oni. It wasn’t the best network game I’ve ever played. It wasn’t the go-anywhere-do-anything kind of game I ever played. Where did these features go that were promised? Where were all the skylights to shatter and pounce on people unsuspectedly? Where were my other approaches to tackling missions...they were mostly set path adventures. Where was a story line that made half sense and left me satisfied when completed besides a big ‘The End’ greeting me at the end. I didn’t feel all my effort and many deaths by gun fire (rather than amazing kung-fu moves as promised) when I was almost always ammo less was satisfactory. In fact, everyone had a gun as opposed to the original idea that gunplay would be always a minimal option.

Perhaps I just miss the days of Minotaur, Pathways and Marathon...or perhaps I’m just over analyzing it. But then perhaps I’ve been lead astray by Bungie’s own marketing ploy. Well you know where my copy of Oni went (eBay) while I’m still holding on to the original boxes of the Marathon trilogy and still playing those quality games.

slc57 - you did this topic to death in MacFormat's forums. Are you expecting a different response here?

Read the weekly Halo updates. PLay the game when it comes out. All games change during development, and every game engine is re-written many times (not *dumped*).

[JUnderwood]

I think it will be an improvement. they re-wrote it to use GeForce3 new Pixel Mapping technology.

go to halo.bungie.org and view the before and after MS buy-out demo video. judge for your self.

Ohh, yeah. Oni kicks. Just wish for Multiplayer in 2.


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Ride the big one.
Jonathan

[AirSluf]

Bungie died when they ran out of money. Why else would they cave to Microsoft after fending off larger offers in the years before, it was the only way they would ever get Oni & Halo out the door with a Bungie name. There is no real Bungie anymore. As munch as any of them or Webmaster would like to deny it, they have been assimilated.

As part of a large M$ corporation they either do what they or told or get fired just like anone else. Resulting in a complete change of how Halo is played. An engine rewrite was actually in order though, think of how much the bar has been raised by everyone else since we saw the first demo. Then it rocked, today it would just been a little cool and soon passed. It's over a year late now, probably two by release, I'm feeling kinda bummed that it probably won't seem that great on release anymore. Especially since Oni was a letdown after a ccouple days.

[schwa]

A few observations...

• I was disappointed to see that Bungie was bought by MS, but I will say this: MS is probably a better parent company to have than, say, Mattel or Softbank. I think that, beyond the mandate of "Halo must be an Xbox title first", they're probably given a lot of leeway.

• Oni was a great game, but definitely felt half-baked upon release. I think Bungie may have bit off more than they can chew when they sat down to write it. It's an incredibly complicated game, particularly for an independent software company (which they were for almost all of its development). Disappointing, yes, but it laid a solid groundwork. Oni 2 will, hopefully, be amazing.

• Ditto Halo, even more so.

Sure, Bungie promised us the world and didn't deliver. But hey, manage your own expectations people. Oni, despite its flaws, is still better than most other games out there. If Bungie were to remain committed to making Halo everything they originally said it was going to be, they could be coding into the next decade. Deal with it.

[AirSluf]

A lot of the disappointment comes because of the delays. What they showed at the time set the standard at a new level. But the long delay allowed the Jonses to catch up in technology or at least look and feel. Now it's not a generation ahead anymore. We see many of those features in the field already, so the excitement is dulled significantly. Not only because our expectations were too high, but because they missed the golden moment for release because of a merketing department that put an as yet unfielded hardwares marketing effort above an essentially ready to release game that was designed for the PC(meaning Macs & Wintels).

[Slc57]

Hey u guys if u want some real debate action, be sure to check out this thread on MacAddict! http://forums.macaddict.com/bbfarm/F...ML/002588.html

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Alex Cuter

[Sol]

It's more common than you'd think for a dev team to trash their engines and start again. I believe Bungie did so twice with HALO before the MS buyout (though I could be mistaken).

I do find it odd that 3-D action doesn't work well on a console. I assume that this is a control issue more than anything else, which is odd considering Rockstar Games' port of ONI to the PS2. Speaking of ONI, they really bit off more than they could chew. The game was in developement for how long? All I know is that I remember watching that first movie something like three years ago. Of course some things can't be helped (like multiplayer and latency) but still...

I'm still looking forward to HALO. MS needs to have as many good titles as they can get for the 'box if they want to do well against Nintendo and Sony, especially now that Sega is making games for them. Getting rid of creative control from Jason et al and sucking the fun out of the game isn't the best way to go about things.

[schwa]

Have you tried out Oni on the PS2? It goes a long way to validate the control theory, let me tell ya. I've played a bunch of FPS games on consoles, and they're generally pretty difficult for casual gamers (usually one directional input for movement, one for aiming; they generally use every button on the controller). Oni, though, took the cake- it was completely disorienting, and I gave up after about 5 minutes.

And regarding throwing out game engines... there's an old programmer's saying: make one to throw away, because you will anyway. It's true across the board, not just for games.

[Sol]

No, I've only played ONI on my Mac. The keyboard/mouse combo works fine there, though I can see why it wouldn't be as good on a console. Personally, I really don't like analog sticks to control my avatars, be it in first person or third.

[Arty50]

Metal Gear Solid for the PSone was 3rd person. MGS2 for the PS2 has gone to 1st person for firing weapons. It's just better folks.