Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

macaddled · Apr 17, 2002, 10:02 AM

P · Apr 17, 2002, 10:26 AM

I'd like to see what version was ported, and how DirectDraw and Direct3D was done (shim over CoreGraphics/OpenGL or a Quartz extension), but it looks impressive. If Apple wanted to add DirectX directly to Quartz, they probably could without too much trouble, but I'd really prefer if DirectX didn't replace OpenGL as the graphics standard.

voodoo · Apr 17, 2002, 10:55 AM

I second that! Can OpenGL graphics cards use and accelerate DirectX?

poulh · Apr 17, 2002, 10:59 AM

I have a feeling that there is a DirectX function that just calls the corresponding OpenGL function inside of it. While this will cause a little bit of a performance hit, graphics code is what takes the most cpu time and that should be spun off to the graphics processor.

I have a feeling if westlake interactive or the studio that creates the game will figure out which don't cause too much of a performance hit, use those, and rewrite other bits of code that are slow.

Even if it requires a bit of a faster mac, I wouldn't mind as long as the games come out! And in a year or so, faster macs will be out anyway, so performance shouldn't be that big a deal.

xyber233 · Apr 17, 2002, 03:38 PM

Damn, you beat me to it

. I sure hope that it works though. Could our lack of games problem be solved?

Orange Luna · Apr 17, 2002, 04:01 PM

Damn this surprised me. MS's DirectX API is pretty large and complicated. I would guess to make it run decently a person(or group) would need some pretty good inside information to tie it to hardware. A DirectX API bridge to OpenGL??? hmmm, can this run well? or is this one of those here today, gone tomorrow technologies?

Drakino · Apr 17, 2002, 06:33 PM

Keep in mind Direct X is the best gaming API out there for one sole reason, it covers everything. Direct X is just the name for the following:

Direct3D for 3D graphics
DirectDraw for 2D graphics
DirectSound for up to surround sound
DirectMusic for synth music
DirectInput for dealing with mice, keyboards, and game input devices
DirectPlay for network game support

And that tool dosen't allow a Mac user to play a DirectX game. Instead it helps the developers quickly port their applications, so most likely each of the above is run through a converter to change it into the closest match on the Mac. OpenGL, Quicktime, etc...

OpenML was going to be the unified standard to tie into OpenGL and offer the above services, but I haven't seen much on it. I'll give MS credit gor creating an all around solution. It's not a wonder so many games use DirectX even if they use OpenGL for video.

juanvaldes · Apr 17, 2002, 11:00 PM

The problem I see is if ALOT of game developers port to the mac but with a huge influx of games will games be able to buy enough copy's of the game for the developers to return a profit? There are only so many mac gamers, who (if they are like me) can only afford to get so many games a year. If a bunch of the first wave developers to come out losing money in the market due to the user bases money being spread to thin could severely impact any future porting efforts.

But overall this sounds like a great thing, and really will help get rid of one of the main last reasons to stick to windows. Games.

blizzard · Apr 17, 2002, 11:42 PM

On the other hand, if this thing's all it's cracked up to be, then the porting houses just saw their costs of porting drop dramatically...I think it'll be interesting to see how the developers weigh in on this.

olePigeon · Apr 18, 2002, 12:33 AM

Look, the real question here is this:

Will Subspace and Infantry be ported to MacOS X now?!

My first guess is, no. Sony hates Apple.

Adam Betts · Apr 18, 2002, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by olePigeon:
My first guess is, no. Sony hates Apple.

NO NO NO! Sony definitely believe in apple. If you read the article about Station.com support mac, you'll see that they does have good relationship.

Sony do not hate Apple! Not at all!

a2daj · Apr 18, 2002, 01:57 AM

MacDX would be useless to most of the big porting houses because they already have what MacDX has to offer. MacDX is just a library that acts as a shim between DirectX and the Mac equivalent APIs. Companies like Westlake Interactive and Contraband Ent. have been in the business long enough to have written libraries for their own personal use, and I bet their versions are much more robust.
Chris Jacobson, who works for Contraband Ent. mentioned that one of the reasons why porting companies haven't released something similar to MacDX for public use is because they would get sued by Microsoft. MacDX is basically making available a Mac version of certain parts of various DirectX APIs, which M$ may not be too happy about.

Leonard · Apr 18, 2002, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by a2daj:
Chris Jacobson, who works for Contraband Ent. mentioned that one of the reasons why porting companies haven't released something similar to MacDX for public use is because they would get sued by Microsoft. MacDX is basically making available a Mac version of certain parts of various DirectX APIs, which M$ may not be too happy about.

Or this company was just the first one to figure out "why not sell something like this, as other companies could use it". I don't think M$ has any grounds to sue as it's just translating DirectX calls to OpenGL calls. It's not reverse engineering the DirectX code. Although there may be some issue with the App accepting DirectX calls.

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
There are only so many mac gamers, who (if they are like me) can only afford to get so many games a year. If a bunch of the first wave developers to come out losing money in the market due to the user bases money being spread to thin could severely impact any future porting efforts.

With me it's not a question of having the money to buy games, but having the time to play games. Well, and maybe too much addiction to UT and RTCW.

Res Ipsa Loquitur · Apr 18, 2002, 05:21 PM

Think about it: the whole purpose of DirectX is to lock games into the Wondows platform instead of OpenGL. As a result, DirectX has a very different model that inhibits efficient translation between DirectX and OpenGL. M$ will nto welcome DirectX implementations on other platforms. I'd be surprised if this effort is not attacked by M$ legal over intellectual property violations if it shows promise. What really should happen is abandoning DIrectX for OpenGL for all platforms, but M$ does everythign it can to lock all developers, games are jsut one category, into prorietary APIs unique to the WIndows platform. Nothing new here. If game won't suport OpenGL, then screw it--I dono't touch it. It's just a game after all and there are plenty of games that stay open. Stop buying DirectX games if you wnat to see a change. Vote with your feet and dollars and vendors will listen. Any other method of communicating your desires to them will not succeed.

blizzard · Apr 18, 2002, 07:57 PM

Mac users generally don't have too many difficulties avoiding DirectX games

Leonard · Apr 19, 2002, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by blizzard:
Mac users generally don't have too many difficulties avoiding DirectX games

Yeah, I haven't bought one.

iSoldier · Apr 19, 2002, 09:13 PM

Read, all you doubting fools!!!
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/coderus...OCaseStudy.doc http://homepage.ntlworld.com/coderus.../datasheet.doc

"As development of the game was completed very rapidly, there was sufficient development time to add features to the game: -
...�Frames per second control because the game was just playing too quickly."

It appears that if this middleware is as good as the site describes then I'll be wearing my flood pants to accesorize the game flood gates opening. Hopefully I mean middleware and NOT vaporware!

[ 04-19-2002: Message edited by: iSoldier ]

[ 04-19-2002: Message edited by: iSoldier ]