[Cipher13]

Ok, here it is...
This is here mainly cause I wanna know why which is better...
And so a riot doesn't start in an inappropriate thread.
So, go for it.
I say UT is best. Will elaborate on that when I can be bothered.

Cipher13

[denim]

From what I'm told by PC gamers I know, UT is better. I can't speak to this since UT is all I've got.

However, they all play Q3A more than UT. I suspect it has to do with the order the games came to market. That is, Quake was out there before Unreal, so they play what they're more used to. Just because they may like UT better doesn't mean there will be people with more experience playing it than there are for Quake, so since they'd rather play more games, they play Quake.

It's a bummer. I can't run Quake. My 233/MHz machines don't have the power. A guy in my local CompUSA suggested I try the demo when I pointed out the specs on the box to him, and he was right: the demo showed me very clearly that I didn't have the MHz to run the program. Good thing I like UT!

[joe]

It's probably a matter of personal preference more than anything. I tried both the UT demo and Q3A demo. In the end, I only bought Q3A. But I've been a Quake fan since the original. And Doom before that. UT is a good alternative if you're looking for something different...joe

[DocWest]

I tried both the demos and even though Q3A played a little better on my iMacDV, I went with UT.

I like all the different game modes UT has to offer. Assault in a LAN game can't be beat.

I have never been a fan of Quake. I always prefered to play Duke Nukem.

I think UT has way more strategy involved. In Quake the only way to win is to go on a battle rage, which is cool, but gets boring eventually.

So I have the full version of UT, but I haven't played it for a while. I got the StrikeForce mod which truly kicks ass.

Every now and then I'll play a LAN game of the Q3A demo, just to go on a battle rage against my friends.

[Ca$h68]

Overall? Definatly UT. Its levels are better, weapons are more creative, TECHNO soundtrack, awesome bots (DIE BITCH), and easy to use interface.

Quake has non of those. drab levels, boring weapons, stupid bots ("DAts a good one CaH<---- Cant even say Ca$h right...stupid bots), and still has a dumb console to work with.

Q3 is good for deathmatch though, I'll give it that......

But, if you dont have DSL or something, GET UT, because its more fun to play by yourself, and offers more expandability in comparison to quake...

Ca$h

[The Dude]

Well, personally I must say I am partial to Quake 3 Arena. The main reason to this is because I am a fan of the series and of id (which includes staff ALL HAIL JOHN CARMACK!) Er, anyway. I think it's safe to say that Quake 3 takes the crown for technologically the superior game. Look at the performance on our macs! Look at the ping on a good 56k! Curved surfaces! Less RAM needed!

BUT!

Unreal Tournament I think barely carries itself with it's "Smorgasboard" like offerings. I THINK THAT THIS GAME IS NOT SUPERIOR IN TERMS OF CODING. I think that because of things like the net code. In my experience my ping (on a LAN may I add) was terrible. About 50 ping on average, and my friend's character was lurching along in my scopes! That really disappointed me. And the rendering engine. Well I can't bitch much about it except for one small thing. That small thing being the models and how when you shoot upwards, the model is still aiming straight ahead! I think that that is just sloppy. I mean UT copies enough things from Quake and id, why didn't they put some more time into the modeling system? And adding to my rants on the rendering engine, WHAT A HOG! I am on a Powerbook G3 400MHz with 192MB of RAM (no VM of course) and I only manage to eek out about 30FPS, on a good day that is. What I am trying to say is that in Q3, I can achieve about 40FPS solid. In UT, it dips down to the 10FPS regions more that I would like. And don't gimme that "Well you can tweak it you know." I have tweaked UT to hell and back and that's as good as it gets.

Oh and by the way, I own legitmate copied of both games. So I know what I am talking about. At LEAST more than the dude who has played each demo for 5 minutes.

But hey. That's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
------------------
Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

[This message has been edited by The Dude (edited 10-05-2000).]

[denim]

How can you know anything about the code in UT? You've got access to the source?

[seanyepez]

I love Quake III: Arena's gameplay. it's truely the original deathmatch. It's more frantic and requires more skill (no offense). I turn off the music because it distracts me. I might play some music on my PowerBook while I game, but that's about it.

Quake III: Arena has better LAN code. UT's LAN code gave my friend an 80 ping over a crossover cable to my PowerBook.

The Quake interface rocks. I love the Quake interface. Unreal Tournament's "Find Internet Games" is really stupid. Also, there aren't any good servers around here. The best ping I've ever gotten is something like 50. I get 10-30 in Quake.

The weapons in UT, albeit "creative", require thought to use. Quake is mindless, a good quality in a game.

[The Dude]

Originally posted by denim:
How can you know anything about the code in UT? You've got access to the source?

I don't claim to be a programmer. But it doesn't take a genius to see that the network code of Q3 is much better than UT's. The proof of it is in the ping I and others have gotten in both games over a LAN. In my experience, I have gotten an average ping of 10 over my 100BaseT LAN controlled by a switch. But yet over the same LAN, UT gave me a ping of 50 on average.

That's how I know. Though I wish I did have access to UT's network code, that would be awesome.

------------------
Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

[blizzard]

The Dude is right; iD's network code is second to none. UT was and is a fun game to play, but Quake 3 has staying power. I've said before that my friends (PC gamers) all still play Q3 quite a bit, whereas none of them play UT at all anymore. Kudos go to Epic for trying to take on iD on iD's own turf, but Epic didn't quite cut it.

Basically, if you're in it for multiplayer action, Q3 is it. UT is fun, don't get me wrong, but not that many people play it anymore, in my experience.

[Ca$h68]

Agree in terms of technologically better, yes q3. But come on, the UT engine is OLD. Thats why the models dont aim up or down; its still based on the original UT engine. Unreal Tourneyment 2, which is entirely new, should blow Q3 outta the water.

And I think the graphics are kinda better on UT. I mean, yeah, no curved surfaces, but everything looks so clear, and the outside environments (part of the engine) are just BETTER than q3.

UT is better.

NO! Conditioner is better!

[Leonard]

I think UT is the better game due to the variety of game types, the graphics and the strategy involved. Q3 is just run and shoot. The one thing that Q3 has, that needs improvement in UT is the network speed - Q3 definitely seems to have better pings.

[seanyepez]

That, and fix up the models, Epic. I mean, those Necris are extremely ugly. Man, what are they trying to do here...?

Non-human models like Quake III's are better. I like the models in Quake III far more than I like those in Unreal Tournament.

UT is my game of choice at the moment.. but I still play quake because id is actually showing a great deal of commitment to our platform. Joe

[The Dude]

Originally posted by Ca$h68:
Agree in terms of technologically better, yes q3. But come on, the UT engine is OLD. Thats why the models dont aim up or down; its still based on the original UT engine. Unreal Tourneyment 2, which is entirely new, should blow Q3 outta the water.

And I think the graphics are kinda better on UT. I mean, yeah, no curved surfaces, but everything looks so clear, and the outside environments (part of the engine) are just BETTER than q3.

UT is better.

NO! Conditioner is better!

Well about Q3 not being able to do outside environments, it was never meant to. If you think about how the level's in Doom, Quake 1 2 3, and others made by Id, the one thing they have in common is that they all have dark closed in arenas/levels. I think it was a natural move by Id to make the Q3A engine accel in closed in environments. Makes you wonder how they will pull Fakk2:Heavy Metal off.

And about that UT2 engine, can anybody tell me what card/system can render a 3700 polygon model? I mean come on! When do they think they can introduce this monster of an engine? 2001? 02? Well if they can do it, I will seriously tip my hat to them and the graphics card manufacturers. For now, Q3's 1000 (average) polygon models are fine for me.

But hey, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[blizzard]

As someone who's seen Heavy Metal: FAKK 2, believe me when I say that they pulled it off pretty damn well. Also believe me when I say be prepared for CHUNK, baby.
And as for the Unreal 2 engine (note: Unreal 2, not Unreal Tournament 2), at this point, their tech demo movie simply shows off the Unreal engine with a few add-ins (outdoor scenes and increased model polygon counts, specifically). But it is still only the Unreal engine. I'm sure the U2 engine will be even more impressive, and even more demanding on video cards, than any other engine. Anyone else remember the clash between 3dfx and nVidia from a while back, where 3dfx said that hardware T&L was unnecessary, and nVidia said it was the future of video cards? Well, guess who's right? T and L is in, and engines like the U2 engine are basically going to NEED it to operate well. The next few years will be quite interesting...

well hey... I've played them both (and own them both).. I'm a huge fan of Id and support them whenever possible (bought EVERY version from Doom up to Q3A).. however, UT is a more engaging game to play. I find that I fire up UT 10 times more often than Q3A. Nothing like a good game of FACE to get the blood flowing! Yeah, the graphics engine isn't as snazzy as Q3A, and yuh just gotta hate the lag when someone joins the game, but, the UT engine keeps your feet on the ground, it's 'sticky' ... you compare that to Q3A, and whenever you move or jump and land, you always seem to 'skate' a little. It's not noticable until you play both for a while, then you can't help but see it. Disconcerting. (Sorta like those stupid grounding wires for the shadow mask of ANY Trinitron monitor, you never notice them until someone points them out, then yer ALWAYS staring at them!)

Well... just my opinion anyway. Q3A- better game engine absolutely. UT- more fun to play.

I will admit that I never enjoyed playing games like doom and UT.

But when Q3A was released as the test version.
I will never stop playing it Its freakin awesome. UT just doenst cut it for me for many reasons the main being its sense of depth its not very realistic. Also I like q3a because I can be myself and have my own moves that is another issue that UT just doesnt give up.

Q3A kicks UT ARSE and leaves it on the floor waiting for someone to frag it.

[Ca$h68]

You got it backwards man. if anything, UT is more realistic. YOu cant jump as high, run as fast, and you cant really rocket jump either. Q3 allows you to do all those things. And levels?

UT has SOOOO much better levels than Q3. Its not even funny.

HOWEVER! The debate might be settled with the release of QUAKE 3 TEAM ARENA, a UT style Quake 3 game.

Ca$h

[schwank]

In my opinion Q3A plays alot faster/better than UT. I like the looks of UT and 2 trigers per weapon is kinda cool, but it plays so slooooow compaired to Q3A.
I do wish that the Q3A would do a map expansion pack like UT did tho.........

[Ca$h68]

Let me guess... you have a rage 128....

get a 3dfx card.

Ca$h

[micha schraven]

no way, Q3 has almost nothing more to offer than Q1 than nicer graphics and better AI. You still have the same simple weapons in Q3 as in q1 ! I know it is a bold statement but in fact it is true.

unreal tournament has won this match! (two mousebuttons rock) + the levels are bigger in UT (huge!) + more different ways of multiplayergames, a nuclear missilelauncher, assault missions..

just et cetera, et cetera and et cetera..

UT isn't a matter of taste. It just beats Quake.

[The Dude]

Hmmm, am I the only one here who knows that Quake carries a legacy on its series? Thats why the weapons are similiar. I for one enjoy that small fact. And by the way, whats wrong with making a suped up version of Q1 anyway? Quake 1 had some killer gameplay then AND now. I still like to gather some friends for some good ole QuakeWorld. It's all very confusing to at times.

Now this probably doesn't sound the "The Dude" you all know, but I would have to say that the main factor here is simply taste. Do you enjoy stragety/FPS? Go with UT. Do you like tons of different types of gameplay? Get UT. Do you want good performance? Get Q3. Do you want fast hectic gameplay? Get Q3. It all depends on what you want. But please don't badmouth Quake. Had it not been for Id and their fantastic work, we wouldn't have UT.

SO SHUDDUP!

------------------
Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

haha The fact that someone can get headaches from quake3 tells me that your mind really feels the stress of running and getting fragged.

[Ca$h68]

If you want performance go Q3? Uhhhh.... nooooo.

If you have a shitty rage 128 or some other gay ATI card get Q3, cuz UT is too demanding for you.

If you have a voodoo card, get UT. It runs like mad.

Ca$h

[The Dude]

Originally posted by Ca$h68:
If you want performance go Q3? Uhhhh.... nooooo.

If you have a shitty rage 128 or some other gay ATI card get Q3, cuz UT is too demanding for you.

If you have a voodoo card, get UT. It runs like mad.

Ca$h

If you have a voodoo card, try OpenGL. It runs like crap

------------------
Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

[seanyepez]

Because Quake is so frantic, I can release my emotions after a day's work fragging people and dissing them after I own them with my nifty ping of eighteen milleseconds. If I play UT, I get owned by those people who are used to tracing fifteen seconds ahead of someone to get a hit with the ASMD.

Quaking is the funnest thing I've done. When friends are over, we play Quake, not Unreal Tournament. We get horrible pings over a LAN. There's a dedicated host, too.

When I hosted a LAN party on a boat riding across the San Fransisco Bay, I played Quake. People enjoyed Quake. Unreal Tournament was one of those names the average programmer (who has no life ) has heard of. They knew of Quake. Years ago, we didn't play Unreal, we played Quake 2. Before that, we played Quake CTF.

Anyway, my rant is over.

It wasn't really a rant, but I'm just expressing my opinions on this topic.

I love UT when you have a kick-ass graphics card and a sub-20 ping, but the latter is extremely hard to obtain in Unreal.

[seanyepez]

Oh, and by the way, it was a corporate event...

It was cool, because we were on the fourth deck of one of those steam ships. That same deck had gambling and a bar...

Every once and a while, my buddies and I would run over to the bar and get some Coke. By the end of the party, I think we had used up all their Coca-Cola syrup.

It was hell of fun. No one would let me play, because I'd own them all. At the end of the party, we went three on me. I took them down by a huge margin.

We were playing on 500-megahertz Pentium III's with 128 megabytes of RAM and GeForce^2 GTS 64-megabyte graphics cards. One flat panel monitor, and three CRT's were the displays. The funniest thing was that every once and a while, I'd have to degauss all the CRT's.

[Ca$h68]

Hrm. Your computers must suck ass then. When we lan UT, sometimes I host the game, and I have a 333 iMac.

We connect about 4-6 people and they all get about 30 ping.

Sucks to be you, as UT is a far superior CTF game, not to mention stuff like Assault.

Ca$h

UT is better but:

1) Is CPU bound, until they take advantage of AltiVec and MP, it won't even come close on the Mac to what is on the PC

2) Doesn't support OS X yet, but if the folks at Omni, and John Carmack were'nt such NeXt-centric folks, Q3A wouldn't be there either.

-Chris

I would just like to counter the below quote with a simple thought:
7 years ago on my high school Phonenet network on 040 systems (damned if I can't recall the model...Performa 400 maybe) I would play with anywhere from 4 to 7 people the game "Marathon 2", anyone remember that?? Awesome game ("Extended 2D" they called it) with a bunch of multiplayer modes (including team modes, king of the hill, capture the flag, and deathmatch) the only bad thing about this game now is that after playing so much Demo Quake 3 Arena (great game, not enough levels) and Demo Unreal Tournament (my personal favorite of the two) the Extended 2D graphics just dont cut it, VERY depressing as that was my all time favorite game *sigh*

Oh, and don't bitch about owning the full copy/not owning the full copy...some people (like myself) just haven't gotten around to it yet! I do intend to purchase the full UT, still haven't made up my mind on Q3A yet.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by seanyepez:
[B]I love Quake III: Arena's gameplay. it's truely the original deathmatch.

Quake III has a different feel that Unreal Tournament. I prefer it. It dosn't mean I right or wrong. The choice is a matter of personal preference

I've only played Quake 1, but after a week or so of playing UT every day, I must say that I enjoy the whole ambiance of Id games much better. Quake 1 was creepy, I stayed up till all hours getting chills because the whole atmosphere was so dreadful. On UT, the graphics are obviously much better than Q1, but it feels more homogenized and generic to me. It simply doesn't have the same character that QI has. I'm getting QIII tomorrow, so I can have an informed opinion about this I understand QIII doesn't have as good of levels as UT, so I can see why so many prefer UT. But if QIII has the same atmosphere of QI, then I'll probably like it better.

I must agree with the comments on UT's horrible ping rates. I get major lag on UT whenever I'm playing on a modem. For close encounters, its useless, there is definantly a very long lag, during which I always get maimed and brutalized. Poor effort on UT's part.



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Hrm. Another issure that pisses me off its hte bots. Q3 bots are big and stupid, and they say the GAYEST stuff ever. "Dats a good one Cah!" They cant even say my name right. Those stupid bots.

UT bots are much more 'colorful'

Hehehe. DIE BITCH!

[The Dude]

Originally posted by losingmyaliases:
Hrm. Another issure that pisses me off its hte bots. Q3 bots are big and stupid, and they say the GAYEST stuff ever. "Dats a good one Cah!" They cant even say my name right. Those stupid bots.

UT bots are much more 'colorful'

Hehehe. DIE BITCH!

Ca$h, come on man, get some new arguments.

------------------
Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

why? You havent refuted that one yet. I guess its true then. Everyone agrees. Q3 bots suck ass.

Ca$h

[DocWest]

Q3 doesn't have nali warcows. or cool looking bots.

they have mr lumpy head dude wearing a gay mask.

WEEEEEEEAAAAAAKKKKK!!!!!

They still act like homos

Well, I have a G4 400 with a Voodoo 5...
And I don't really see that Quake 3 is better than UT. Personnaly, I tend to prefer Unreal, for the variety of game types u can choose from, but it's a matter of personnal taste and frame of mind:
- If I'm competely stressed out and want a "quick game" to get my head out of things, then I go for a Quake 3. More *immediate action*
- If I want a longer game, or some strategy (yes, it is possible), I go for a UT.

What we tend to forget is that both games are REALLY cool. Furtehrmore, we are in aposition where we can CHOOSE between them. 3 years ago, that wouldn't ahve been possible. This is why I support bothe of them and bought one of each *s*

Have a nice game

[The Dude]

What jonan said.

------------------
Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

UT all the way!!! Better graphics, weapons and multiplayer capabilities. Q3 is just Q2 with better graphics. I don't care about the bot AI because its all about the multiplayer game anyway. All you need is a 24 port switch, 24 pack of Dew, some freinds over, and you have one kick ass LAN party.

Half-Life would be cool. I've played the Half-Life TFC and Counterstrike mods and I think they rock. Pisses me off that its not out for Mac yet. Guess I'll get the Dreamcast version.