Hey whats up. Well im 13 years old and i really want a computer that is a great internet( I have a cable modem) and gaming machine and is also very stable. I was thinking about getting and imac dv se w/ 256 but now the cube has dropped prices and i was thinking about getting that w/ radeon and 256 and a viewsonic 17" for all around 2000. 2000 is my bugit. So if you can think of a mac system that has killer graphics cool and would soot my needs hit me back. Also i was wondering if counterstrike or rainbow 6 was available for the mac. THanks a bunch

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Yale R.

[Jsnuff1]

look at the new 466 and 533 g4's i think they are both around 2000

[Stogieman]

I don't know about Counterstrike but Rainbow 6 is available for the Mac. Click on the Games link at the top of this page for a ton of info on Mac games.
If I were you, I would stay away from the iMac DVSE. Don't get me wrong, it's a great machine (I have one) but it's not the best for games. You can't upgrade the video card, and you're limited to just 8 megs of VRAM. The cube sounds like a good deal although I think you'd be better off with a G4 tower. The newest models maybe a little too expensive for you to add a 17" monitor for under $2000. You may find a better deal on 450 and 500 G4s. Apple is trying to clear them out to make way for the new machines.

[Archangel]

G4 tower is the only way to go for gaming. Think long term, expansion, and upgrading. Both the Cube and the iMac DVSE will not allow you to expand a whole lot or upgrade very easily. If you are a serious gamer, I don't think you can seriously consider a Cube or a iMac.

Counterstrike is not available for the Mac, and never will be. It's a complete mod of Halflife which was canceled for the Mac. There are mods for the UT and Q3 that allow you to do the same thing, however, I have not been impressed with them. I've played CS extensively, and none of the UT mods come close to its quality.

Another link to check out for Mac gaming is my favorite Mac gaming site: www.insidemacgames.com



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"Elvis has left the building!"

[TomG3AKAMacguyver]

Yea, I agree with the others, the iMac and cube do not have upgradable video cards, so not good for gaming.

The towers are the way to go and we finally got some higher mHz but unfortunately the prices are very high - the _base_ tower _starts_ at $1700??? WTF. As others said, you could look for previous models on sale - my sister got a G4 400 right after the new models were released last year at MWNY (with the new mouse), she got the previous model for $1299 with 128 ram!! That was a great deal and she bought it because it was affordable. I can't help but think that Apple would sell more systems if they were a bit more affordable. Remember why the clones were such a big hit.

I also don't know why Apple does not just make the video cards in the iMacs upgradable (or even just give us the mezanine slot back!). If they did we'd have a decent inexpensive gaming machine. If I could say one thing to Steve Jobs it would be that.

TG3
Submit reviews for the mac games you play http://www.macgamersreview.com/

[Sting]

Cube's vid card is upgradeable to the Radeon.

In any event, but the newest if you can. The 667 and 733 new machines have the write-combining that has been the rage lately on BBSs, but I'd imagine its beyond your budget.

I'm playing on a 450 cube and radeon, with a 19" monitor and I'm more than impressed. Now if only Quake 1.27h would arrive...

[austeros]

plus now that there are nvidia drivers on the mac, and a mac compatible chipset, it is increasingly likely that there will be a nvidia card for the cube. i hope so. i would love to see a redesigned cube come macworld tokyo (high g3s to mid g4s, with umda2)

[xyber233]

Why dont you wait a month? Lets see what Steve pulls out of the hat. Maybe a new iMac is the thing for you.

[gorefan68]

Get an oldschool G4 tower (oxymoron right there) for like 1000-1200 somewhere, spend 3-400 ona GOOD monitor, (viewsonics SUCK) and then spend whatever else on a video card (voodoo5 or radeon)

That'd be a kickin system.....

Ca$h

[Chimpmaster]

I reckon a new Imac will be released soon with a better video card in it, like radeon or gforce2 mx.

NOw despite the upgradeablility, an imac dvse witha good video card at the right price would be an excellent gaming machine.

Pci is fast becoming old technology and I feel it is highly over rated - you already have a network port, a modem and a good sound card. As for video, you want to use agp anyway.

[gorefan68]

Hey Chimp, hate to break it to you but a PCI slot is STILL better than any card they'll put in an iMac. Why? You can throw in a 32 meg Radeon or a Voodoo5, which will kick any imac to the curb.

Ca$h

[gorefan68]

Afterthought: Thats kinda like saying "Dude, V8s are OLD technology, a new honda civic would be a much better purchase for going fast"

Ha. PCI may not be a new 'cool' technology, but its a hell of a lot faster that the silicon excrement they package in iMacs....

Ca$h

[blizzard]

I'm with most everyone else - the Tower is the best way to, but you could make do for now with a Cube and a Radeon. What you aren't getting there is the new motherboard, what with its 133 mHz system bus, 4X AGP, and write combining; also, I imagine you'd want a SoundBlaster as soon as it came out, and the Cube won't let you upgrade your computer with one of those. Just some things to keep in mind. Also, my understanding is that ALL new G4 Towers come with the upgraded motherborads, not just the 667s and 733s. They have the new G4e processor, but that's about it.

LOL. What kind of 13 year old has $2000 burning a hole in his pocket for a computer? haha

Seriously... If you're hell bent on buying a Mac...the G4 tower is the way to go. BUT, let me be the first to say it.... If you want a gaming machine, go buy a PC. I know. I know. I hate PC's too...but the Mac can't touch them for games...

And for $2k you can get a snazzy, souped up gaming PC with a 19" monitor and a crazy video card. Would I use that machine for work? He££ no... But for games, thats the way to go.

[Leonard]

Originally posted by Richie Daggers Crime:
LOL. What kind of 13 year old has $2000 burning a hole in his pocket for a computer? haha

Seriously... If you're hell bent on buying a Mac...the G4 tower is the way to go. BUT, let me be the first to say it.... If you want a gaming machine, go buy a PC. I know. I know. I hate PC's too...but the Mac can't touch them for games...

Where have you been lately, locked in the closet? The new G4 Towers are every bit as good as a PC now that they have write-combining. You better check your stats before you diss Macs. I would have accepted this statement last year, but now it doesn't hold anymore.

As for the original question, I agree with most of the rest of the folks, get a G4 Tower, even if you have to get an older one due to the cost.

G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G4G

Get the point?

[gorefan68]

Originally posted by Leonard:
Where have you been lately, locked in the closet? The new G4 Towers are every bit as good as a PC now that they have write-combining. You better check your stats before you diss Macs. I would have accepted this statement last year, but now it doesn't hold anymore.

As for the original question, I agree with most of the rest of the folks, get a G4 Tower, even if you have to get an older one due to the cost.

You need to quite smoking that apple -brand CRACK my friend. Show me a G4 that gets over 100FPS for ANY price, and I'll show you a PC beast built for 1200 that gets 120fps in q3 with EVERYTHING cranked.....

but.... there are no macs that get above 100FPS.

so...

you can't. BUt I can show you my friend's machine....built for 1200... gets 123ish fps in Q3 timedemos in 1024X768 with everything on max.

Ca$h

[TomG3AKAMacguyver]

No, he is right about PCs if you mainly want a gaming system. For the price of Apples base tower (just the cpu) you can get a Dell demension system 2wice the mHz with a good 17" monitor and 3 piece altec speaker system, and have a larger selection of games. Them's the facts.

The good side of the Macs is the OS - you don't have to be an IT pro to do basic troubleshooting. My friend built me a PC - all top of the line components for $1k sans monitor, and it was killer for gaming, but if something went wrong with it I was screwed, I'm not fond of things like the BIOS and Registry and DOS (knowledge of DOS is helpful in troubleshooting PCs).

Bottom line is Apple needs to do something about their prices. The software side of Mac gaming is happening, but not many can afford $2k for a system. Put an upgradable vidoe card in the iMac, do something good for Mac gaming Steve.

TomG3

[Leonard]

Originally posted by gorefan68:
but.... there are no macs that get above 100FPS.

so...

you can't. BUt I can show you my friend's machine....built for 1200... gets 123ish fps in Q3 timedemos in 1024X768 with everything on max.

Ca$h

Time to eat your words Cash... see http://www.barefeats.com/quakeX.htm or http://www.imgmagazine.com/news/stor...ArticleID=1864

Mac users can now reach over 100 FPS. You have to keep up with the news, Cash.

IMHO, anything over 60-70 FPs is just a luxury.

[gorefan68]

Originally posted by Leonard:
Time to eat your words Cash... see bla bla bla
Mac users can now reach over 100 FPS. You have to keep up with the news, Cash.

No eating of the words here. WOoo weee.... 100 fps in 640X480. Like I said before, I saw a 1200 dollar PC crank out 120 fps in 1024X768 with everything on high. What does the mac get?
yay. 62. wee....

Sorry. PC's still kick the CRAP outta macs. Like put their faces on the curbs and smash they're skull open.



-Ca$h

[Cipher13]

You can't even tell the difference between 70 fps and 120 fps dude.

BUT, you can't say the Macs are as good as wintels for gaming, cause they're NOT.
Show me a Mac with a 266MHz bus. And a GeForce 2 Ultra.
Yeah, zactly.
But as I said - you don't need all that power for CURRENT games. 70fps is FINE.
Get a G4 Tower. The Cube is crap, and the iMac isn't a games machine.

Cipher13

Get a Dual 733 G4 when they come out I am guessing Applewill follow there histroy with the G4 500. When Motarola finnaly masters the production of the 766 G4 Apple will almost put two of them in the G4. This is only a hunch but scine there such an emphasis in OSX for the multi processing I think that they will contiune with their multi processors. The only reason that they didn't have them in it a macworld was the production wasn't up and they still haven't mastered it. If you can spare the cash mabey at the same priceing as the high end single 766 I'm geussing that they will be shown at macworld in new york

[Chimpmaster]

Ca$h, re your comment before. It seems like you didnt get my post. Maybe I didnt write it well.

What I meant was, a new release Imac with a 32mb radeon or gforce 2 mx card would be a great machine, particularly if the card was mounted into an agp slot, which it would be of course.

Agp operates at twice the bus speed of pci, and thats just agp 1x. In theory agp 4x would provide substantial speed over an equivalent pci card. All tests have shown too, that agp cards run faster than their pci counterparts- eg voodoo5, geforce etc.

So, all I was saying, is that pci expandability sounds good, but you have to keep in mind what it is really going to be used for. You are way better off using an agp slot if you have one (in the cube for example), than you are mucking around with pci video cards. Pci is great for sound, network, and various other cards, but doesnt really cut it for video.

SO back to the point I was making.... For most users, an Imac or Cube with a decent agp video card like a radeon 32mb, would more than suit their needs. Pci technology is dating for video, and manufacturers are not supporting it now as they once did anyway.

[gorefan68]

Ok, and I'll restate what I said before. AGP is better than PCI. Thats a fact. HOWEVER, you also have to realize that whatever card they put into an iMac is going to be horseshit, so ... I figure, instead of them putting in a permanently nudered 300X Super AGP Ultra card that still gets dick for framerates, they should just put in a PCI slot. Of course an AGP slot would be better, but I'm just saying a PCI SLOT would be better than any POS AGP card they'd throw in it.

Ca$h

[Cipher13]

Ca$h... that is so wrong.
Theres no point having the PCI slot for the graphics card if its purpose is giving you better graphics - stick a VooDoo 5 on PCI, and the GeForce2 MX, while not as good, will kick its ass...
The VooDoo 5 isn't being fed enough to be effective
WHY put a PCI slot for graphics expansion when they could have an AGP slot for graphics expansion?

Cipher13

[Chimpmaster]

Thanks for that Cipher. Ca$h I realise what you are saying...

And Im not sure how a gforce2 mx 32mb card stacks up against a voodoo 5 5500 pci 64mb card. Id say for games performance pretty similar, until you get to higher resolutions where the voodoo would be advantagous.

I still think the radeon 32mb card that is slowly becoming a mac standard (or was until they brought out the new g4's) is a damned good card and i would prefer this to a voodoo 5 pci card.

My other point is that pci for video seems to be phasing out. I think long term what you want is an agp 4x card. Its possible that the next generation of video cards may not get pci releases. 3dfx was the only manufacturer to fully support pci development and there future is quite uncertain so I wouldnt rely onj pci solutions as anything but a short term investment.

And lets face it, the upgrade cost of buying a radeon with a new mac, or getting the mx gforce 2 card, is so much cheaper than buying a separate voodo 5 card - in australia its about $700 for the voodoo card and the upgrade cost on the gforce & radeon with a new purchase is around $150. Its not a hard choice for me anyway.....