I'm gettng sick of this sh!t--outpost.com (actually ATI) keeps moving the due date for RADEON. Now they say it will be in next week. 'Sup with that?!?!?! We know its ready, its been shipping in Powermacs already.

I also read that ATI is planning a 128MB RADEON for PCs. Figures, we get a 32MB and they get 4X that. Perhaps the G4 processor simply cannot utilize more than 32MB vRAM, but I doubt it. <sigh>

------------------

[HMD]

I know, whats with ATI? My Radeon card from Sparco now has an eta of Oct 30th!

My Radeon has been on pre-order from MacMall since September 1st. I called and they said it would be another 1-2 weeks until I see it. That was on Tuesday. I've been itching for this thing since I played with one at MacWorld. On the other hand, I've wanted a SoundBlaster Live! for my Mac since last April. So it goes...

[gurman]

We've had one on order for a couple of monthss. I'm certain it will be great, but another week or two.... what's the big deal? I mean, this is a video card. Get a grip, folks.

[jclarkv]

Maybe Apple has some agreement with ATI to insure they keep their supply for BTO G4's and the retail market comes second?

------------------

So, what's new?

They did the same crap with the Orion.

[spicyjeff]

Being the owner of both a Voodoo5 and Radeon (from a BTO)...its worth the wait for the Radeon, sure FSAA is kinda cool but the frame rates at 1024x768 32bit color with the Radeon are sweeeett!

[a2daj]

jclarkv, you are correct. ATI makes their money off of OEM deals. Retail comes second.
http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com/ubb/Forum.../000093-2.html

Read the second message from the top. It's an old article, but it still pertains to what you guys are discussing.:

Right now, there is a known issue with Deus Ex, which may possibly be holding up the software.

Originally posted by a2daj:
Right now, there is a known issue with Deus Ex, which may possibly be holding up the software.

Another holdup is that Apple *still* hasn't released the next version of OpenGL, upon which some Radeon features depend. They seem to waiting to roll it into the full OS 9.1 update in the near future.

Thanks for the link to discussion with the ATI dude. That cleared things up alot for me. I suppose we DO need to cut ATI some slack, it looks like they are beholden to Apple's actions. Judging by that discussion, it looks like things such as the ADC are what bog ATI down on RADEON retail development.

At least we can rest assured that the card will totally rock when it finally does get here. The part in the discussion about pushing retail release dates back 4 months was a bit forboding, however.


------------------


[This message has been edited by Phaedrus (edited 10-21-2000).]

The retail RADEON card should be worth waiting for. I just received a new G4 last week w/a RADEON card, and unlike the retail version, there is NO S-Video out! I was extremely pissed; no exporting video to VHS, no watching DVDs on my TV...

BTW, Q3A looks awesome with ALL of the graphics options maxed out (except screen res, and that's my old monitor's fault).

But Deus Ex looks really crappy. Worse than with the Rage 128 pro in my roommate's year-and-a-half-old blue and white G3. Someone above mentioned 'issues,' possibly pertaining to OpenGL... any more info on possible fixes/patches?

[a2daj]

Okay, for those of you who have Deus Ex and a Radeon card and have noticed the snow effect, try this:

Open up your DeusEx.ini and fine the RAVE engine section. It should look something like this:
[RaveDrv.RaveRenderDevice]
Translucency=True
VolumetricLighting=False
ShinySurfaces=True
Coronas=True
HighDetailActors=True
NonATI=False
LightModify=0.000000
TextureComposite=False
VertexLighting=False
DisableVSync=True
PageFlip=False
DetailBias=0.000000
MipMapping=True
DetailTextures=True
DescFlags=0
Description=
ShrinkPercent=1.000000

Now change it to this and run Deus Ex.

[RaveDrv.RaveRenderDevice]
Use32BitTextures=True
Translucency=True
VolumetricLighting=True
ShinySurfaces=True
Coronas=True
HighDetailActors=True
NonATI=False
LightModify=0.000000
TextureComposite=True
VertexLighting=False
DisableVSync=True
PageFlip=False
DetailBias=0.000000
MipMapping=True
DetailTextures=False
ShrinkPercent=1.000000

I don't have a Radeon yet, but I have one on preorder so I'd like to help with at least a workaround for Deus Ex before I get the card in. So, if it works for you, can you please try and track down which setting actually fixes it (IE, the 32 bit Textures, Texture composite, etc...)?

Honestly, how does the Radeon compares with a Voodoo 5 5500?
I bought mine this summer and it's working just great...

Would hate to sell it back already, but if it makes a REAL difference with UT and Q3...

Then I'll do it, of course.

Thanks for some real answers and not : "Radeon is waaaayyyyy cooler!" *s*

[exca1ibur]

I had the Radeon snow effect. All I had to do was turn volumetric lighting to TRUE, and it works fine. No need for the 32Bit texture line since it's not there in the first place. I'm using the 1.01 version of Deus Ex. No more snow effects. :-) It's clobberin' time.

[AAPl Shareholder]

If you have a PCI slot I don't think you will find a world of difference between the Voodoo and Radeon.

However... i must say that the AGP Radeon is very very cool. I am currently running UT with max resolution and everything on. The frame rates are great.

Thanks AAPI
I might go for the Radeon.
Although a Voodoo 5 on the AGP slot is due to be released soon, I don't know whether it will actually support DVD playback...

The nice thing about the Voodoo card is that you can actually buy it. RADEON isn't out yet, unless you get it BTO. I'll be surprised if anyone gets a retail RADEON before 2001.


------------------

do you know when the radeon is actual out and shipping to it's suppliers like outpost?
I've tried to get in touch with ati, but they are, unresponsive and simply pass me from department to department. (I'm a uk power user who pre-ordered from outpost.com).

has anyone actually got this card from outpost or any supplier aside from BTO?

I work for an apple reseller and according to the distrubution channels we use the ATI Radeon is scheduled to arrive in their inventory today (10/26/00). I'm not very optimistic about it actually arriving though because the ETA has already been pushed back twice in two weeks.

I can't wait to get mine!

Just had an email back from ATI (after about 2 weeks!)

"The RADEON MAC Edtion 32MB will be shipping in November, 2000."

GREAT! why tell everyone it will be shipping in october? why give all the reviewers a radeon and not ship it to anyone else? Thanks for nothing ATI! Looks like the shipping dates for outpost.com etc.. are going to keep getting pushed back well into november

Thanks for the info. It looks like ATI has learned well from Apple.

Here's my theory on why ATI is delaying this card:

Apple is forcing them to delay it. Why? Because last year's powermacs are cannibalizing sales of this year's models. I bought my G4 400 for only 1299 at outpost, so even with a retail RADEON, that's still cheaper than a new G4. Added to that, the retail RADEON has an S-video out port, so its more desireable. Apple knows this, and so they are trying to force consumers to buy new G4s to get the RADEON. It's really the only reason I can think of for buying a new G4 400 compared to last year's G4 400. Maybe 0.01% of users will actually use gigabit ethernet, and the hard drive is only 10GB larger (but slower at 5400rpm), but many consumers are interested in the RADEON. Apple doesn't want loyal Mac users slipping a RADEON into discounted Macs, or Macs that they already own. Apple want's to force their users to buy new G4s if they want RADEON.

What it all boils down to is that Apple must resort to trickery to give Mac users the incentive to upgrade to new hardware, because the current lineup is virtually identical in performance to last years.




------------------


[This message has been edited by Phaedrus (edited 10-28-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Phaedrus (edited 10-28-2000).]

I've been wondering the same thing about whether or not Apple is responsible for the shipping delay. However, even if apple is involved somehow, that is irrelevant. Let's look at the big picture here....ATI should stop lying to all of us or at least stop making excuses. It's very simple, either it's shipping or it's not. I ordered this thing over a month ago, when "it'll be shipping in early Oct".....then it was, "it'll ship the week of Oct. 16"....now it's, "we're shipping this week????"....and guess what, it's still no where to be found. If apple is forcing them to do this, then ATI should stop pretending to ship the thing and just postpone it indefinitely. We are all be played liked fools and ATI acts like they are doing us all a big favor by giving us something the PC world has had for a while. Thanks but no thanks, this will be the last ATI purchase for me. ATI has really dropped the ball on this one and has once and for all proved that they are now more PC centric and that their mac products are more of an after thought. It's not so much about wanting the new cards right now, it's about the games they're playing with the mac community as a whole, apple influenced or not. Think Different indeed.

Former ATI supporter......

It didn't make me any less pissed when I went to Best Buy and Compu USA last weekend and saw all the RADEON cards for PCs on sale. A 32MB RADEON for wintels will only set you back $200.

Are there any real differences between Mac and PC RADEON beyond the drivers and the ADC port? Paying for that damn ADC port really puts me in a foul mood. Even thought the retail RADEON doesn't use ADC, its still saddled with the ADC's cost of development. This is why I blame Apple for so many of ATI's problems. Instead of facilitating the development of Mac video cards, Apple unleashes this ADC on everyone, creating another unique Mac feature that is useless and overly complicated. Apple should be kissin' ATI's rear for even giving them something competitive. Look at Motorola, they won't even give Apple chips that are half as fast as the high-end pentiums! I would rather ATI spend their time and resources on mac drivers or DVD playback than on some silly ADC connector that nobody needs. Apple needs to show us that they care about video performance by working with ATI towards developing high performance video cards and drivers, with fully optimized APIs. OpenGL for macs still is not very highly regarded, as long as this is the case I don't think Apple should be putzing around with things like the ADC. They need to prioritize performance above gimmicks.

------------------


[This message has been edited by Phaedrus (edited 11-01-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Phaedrus (edited 11-01-2000).]

does anyone know if outpost got their shipment of radeon's today?
(don't want to make an expensive transatlantic phone call)
any info would be greatly appreciated,

thanks.

Originally posted by funkytrousers:
does anyone know if outpost got their shipment of radeon's today?
(don't want to make an expensive transatlantic phone call)
any info would be greatly appreciated,

thanks.

Nope...still nothing. I got an email from outpost on Fri. apologizing for the delay(not like it's their fault anyway, it should be ati apologizing). Anyway, they said they expect the delivery on Nov. 4. Well it's the 6 and the supposedly shipping ati card is still no where to be found. I just checked on my order and it's still posted as backordered and it is 4:20 PM US west coast time. I still hold to my initial statement last week, that ati is screwing around with us. I think it's funny that ati claims the card was definitely shipping a week and a half ago(this after numerous statements it had actually shipped before that, but that's another story), and it's still no where to be found. How long does it take? Anyway, that's all I know...I wouldn't expect it anytime soon at this rate. Somehow when ati says they are shipping something it means you won't see it for a few months. I hope I'm wrong!

OUTPOST.COM order status says my card was shipped yesterday (6th)
now the painful wait for the shipping company to fly it over to me, wahey!

I think they've managed to fulfill most of their pre-orders now, but some are still outstanding..

I got a notice today from outpost stating that mine was shipped (doesn't say what day it was shipped). I guess I can stop bitching about Apple, now for the fun part! I'm setting aside a whole day for rediscovering UT Armed to the teeth with Radeon, RAM, a G4, and over a hundred maps, I'm ready for ANYTHING! Detail settings on HIGH, mipmapping = TRUE, volumetric lighting = True, full resolution, no more bullsh!t!

This is going to rule!


[This message has been edited by Phaedrus (edited 11-07-2000).]

I had a Radeon on order from MacMall since September 1. I've been checking every day since, to see when it would finally ship. Today, I happened to see that the Radeon was listed for next day delivery at Outpost, so I called MacMall (their online order tracking is down for maintenance). They're not expecting shipment until the 30. I called Outpost who confirmed that there were 25 or so in the warehouse, so I cancelled my MacMall order, and placed an order with Outpost. If I actually get this thing tomorrow, I'll be tickled pink...

[Jsnuff1]

about the performace of the radeaon compared with other cards, ive heard that the radeaon is much better than voodoo 4 and rivals nvidia's geforce 2

MacMall doesn't have as good a return policy as outpost, either, and I don't think they have free shipping. I had to deal with customer service at macmall once because they didn't ship the proper item....but what they did is change my order to reflect the one they shipped! So I had an old invoice that showed what I ordered, and a new invoice that showed what they sent. They gave me a hard time about returning the item, and refused to pay for shipping.

So now I'm an ardent outpost.com supporter.

------------------

It came!!!!
it ROCKS!!!

Just arrived. yaay!
shipped via airborne express.
can't wait to get home and try it out now.

[cteselle]

Received mine via UPS yesterday...

------------------
Promote Chicken Randomness