[The Dude]

This is something I have to get off my chest.

I honestly think that the Playstation 2 will be one of the biggest pieces of crap ever built. Seriously, Sony has been touting this as the end all be all of consoles. Of couse anybody with any sense would want to see if this statement is true. Well I have come to the conclusion that it will overall fail in terms of it living up to Sony's promises. The main reason I say this is the stupid fact that the thing only has a puny 4MB of VRAM. That's it! And so far all the games that have been releases have had terrible anti-aliasing and are nothing but eye candy.

You want to know who is gunna buy this POS? All the little wanna be bad ass hacker 10 year olds who have mommy and daddy buy it for them. I really think that is what Sony is banking on. Technoligically inclined people will hopefully realize this fact and pass the system up until it becomes about $100 in 2009.

Besides that, Dreamcast (the system that was supposed to be the little console that couldn't) has a hefty 8MB of VRAM. What gets me is that this system came out a year before the PS2 did. And I really have to pat Sega on the back because they did come up with a very attractive console that you will give you your moneys worth.

So what do you think? Will you buy one? Do you think I am full of ******** ? What do you think of the other two consoles coming out?


P.S.: To Mods, if this doesn't belong here in the MAC Games forum, please move it to the approiate place. Sorry about this inconvience.

P.P.S: http://forums.macaddict.com/bbfarm/F...ML/001295.html (90 posts long and 234KB in size. Beware.)

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Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

[This message has been edited by The Dude (edited 10-25-2000).]

I'll reserve personal judgement on the Playstation2 until I've seen the system myself and have had an opportunity to check out the launch titles first-hand. However, anyone predicting that the PS2 won't catch on big is smoking crack. The console is literally going to put to shame whatever statistics the Dreamcast had for its launch last Fall and it will be the entertainment system of the year this holiday season. Second and third-generation titles are bound to improve as the developers begin to learn how to really take advantage of the system's hardware. The Playstation2 will be bought by and for both kids and adults, and your prediction that it will only be bought by kids who don't know any better is WAY off the mark. In fact most of the purchasers will be adults, not kids, as more adults play games than kids -- a statistic backed up time and time again by countless polls and studies.

[seanyepez]

I think you are so right, Chris.

The PlayStation was good for its time, but the second PlayStation is too little, too late. The game developers supposately don't like programming for this new console. Also, the games are all graphics, no game. I mean, what, four megabytes of RAM?

I love the Dreamcast now. I was hoping for the PlayStation 2 to kick ass, but I guess it didn't meet my expectations. The Dreamcast can also play Quake...

[The Dude]

Well then the adults don't know much about computing either.

The fact remains that the games will look stunning in term of curveture and modeling, however it will stink in terms of colors and vibrancy. Has anybody seen Unreal Tournament on PS2? Maybe it is just me, but the wintel and mac versions look much better.

And about kids getting the Playstation 2, well why wouldn't they!?! Christmas is coming up and that will be a highly prized piece of plastic. Almost every kid I talk to about video games says he/she wants the Playstation 2. And when I mention the Dreamcast, XBox, or the Nintendo Cube they just look at me. Kids WILL be primary users of the PS2. I honestly believe that with the US's booming ecnomy, it will sell like hotcakes, but for the wrong reasons.

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Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

[Cashie Boy]

What?! Sorry. Strong disagreement. I think it will be INCREDIBLE. Have you seen screen shots of Gran Turismo 3? HOLY SHEET! And thats BEFORE the game programmers have even really gotten to know how to code for it. Look at the diff between Gran turismo one, and GT2 for the original playstation. Big difference. No imagine how GT4 will look!

And to whomever is bitching about Vram. Shut the hell up. Let me ask you this before I smack you upside yoru head with my keyboard: Which had better graphics, Playstation or Nintendo64?

Hrm.... N64.

Which one is better? PS BY FAR! Vram, FSAA, hype, a good game needs not these things. Andthats why this is so cool.

1. No need to get a DVD player, PS2 does it.
2. no need to throw out your PS1 games, it plays them
3. Can we say METAL GEAR SOLID 2?! Show me a game that looks better than that, and I'll spank your monkey. Exactly. you cant. That game looks good enough to spend 300 alone for.

PS2 will be big. REAL big. And I'm getting one once the prices die down a little, and better games are out.

Ca$h

[The Dude]

First off ca$h, NOBODY IS SPANKING ANYBODY'S MONKEY!!!

And before I dignify your lewd reply with a formal answer, please make it clear about which PS you are talking about. If memory serves me, the original PS did not have FSAA.

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Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

[This message has been edited by The Dude (edited 10-25-2000).]

[Adam Silver]

Dude, read Ca$h's post again; he said that the PS1 didn't have FSAA.

While the PS2 only has 4MB of VRAM, Sony has repeatedly said that developers can easily use standard RAM for video as well. (Developers have used this same technique on many PS1 games.)

The antialiasing issues in early Japanese games have been fixed. The American versions of these same games look and perform much better.

Who will buy PS2's? Mommies and daddies of ten-year-olds will buy some of them, but men between the ages of 25 and 34 are the core audience. You're confusing the N64 audience with the PS2 audience. (This is not meant as an insult at N64 owners. I know that there are plenty of adults who own N64's, but children are its core audience.)

The reason why I have not bought a Dreamcast is a lack of titles I'm interested in (Street Fighter III, Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future, and The Next Tetris: Online Edition are not enough to get me to buy a Dreamcast). The PlayStation has plenty of games I like (Final Fantasy V-IX, Lunar 1 & 2 Complete, Chrono Cross, Dragon Warrior VII, Metal Gear Solid and VR Missions, The Next Tetris, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, every game in the Street Fighter series except I and III). Plenty of games I desire have been announced for the PS2 as well (Final Fantasy X & XI, Lunar 3, Metal Gear Solid 2, Street Fighter EX3, and whatever the future may hold). In other words, Sony has what I want. Sega doesn't.

Will I buy a PS2? Not at launch. $300 is more than I am willing to spend. I'm waiting for the price to go down to $200 (which will probably happen shortly before the release of the GAMECUBE or Xbox) or the release of Final Fantasy X, whichever comes first. (Yes, I know that the Dreamcast's launch price was also $200 and now costs $150, but there weren't any games I wanted and still aren't to many.)

However, if someone would release Puyo Puyo for Dreamcast in the United States, I would buy one right away. (If you've played Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, Kirby's Avalanche, or Qwirks, you've played Puyo Puyo.)

Sign the Puyo Puyo in America petitition.

[This message has been edited by Adam Silver (edited 10-26-2000).]

Please, no Puyo Puyo in America. It's too addictive. I don't get enough sleep as it is. Seriously, get going on a head-to-head game, and you'll never stop.

As for me getting a PS2 at launch , that ain't gonna happen, since most of them are already sold. It's just too expensive, anyway. There are still some good N64 and Playstation games, which I can play on my computer for me to pay $300 for a system.

Also, the Gamecube looks impressive, as does the Xbox. I think I'll wait until those are out to decide on a system. One thing I definitely will get will be the game Boy Advance when it comes out next summmer. Mario Kart on the go can't be beat. Plus, it'll only be about $90 or so, much cheaper than any home console.

One more thing- one of my roommates last year had a friend with a Japanese PS2. It was impressive. Ridge Racer, while not that much better gameplay-wise, was very visually impressive.

However, the cool thing was Drum Mania. You plug in this special drum pad controller, and you have to play the drums in time with what's on screen. You can also plug in up to 2 guitar controllers from Guitar Freaks, and if it's done right, it sounds really cool. It's by the same guys who did Dance Dance Revolution. It's sooooo freaking addictive. It is definitely the ultimate party game. While the graphics aren't anything whatsoever, it was FUN. We played Ridge Racer a couple of times, but the bulk of the time we played Drum Mania. The gameplay was just so incredible.

And that's the bottom line. Whichever system has the most fun games will be the one that wins. Great graphics are cool, but if the games are just eye-candy, who cares? For example, there were fps on consoles that looked better than GoldenEye, but game was just so much fun, that it was always the shooter of choice, that is until Perfect Dark came out.

[Misha]

I needed to get a DVD player anyway (hooking my Pismo to a TV is just too much of a drag). Those goes for $200-$250. So at that point, for $50 more, PS2 is a deal.

So I got one today... didn't even have to wait in line. But after seeing that they're going for $1,000+ I decided to sell it. Want it? You could have it tomorrow.

[druber]

And how, good Sir, did you come by this piece of hardware? Did the PS2 stork come and drop it in your lap? If so, can I get on his mailing list?
I tell ya, some people get all the PS2s.

1. PS2 will be big. If it will be a superior piece of hardware has yet to be determined, but in terms of sales it will rule. The DVD player is pure brilliance (this, talking to my pals, is it's best feature).

2. I'll get one once the prices settle down a bit. Right now, they're $449 Cdn. - too rich for my blood. Hard to find around here, too.

Mr.F

[JohnM15141]

Sometime back in June I decided I wanted a PS2 and figured I would be out of town on launch day so to make it more convenient for me I preordered one from ToysRUs.com. I never envisioned the shortage that has occurred. I intended for it to keep the kids off my G4 and give me time to use it.

Well, lo and behold, the Fed Ex guy showed up early on Launch day with one. Yee haaa! I have Unreal on my Mac and Unreal on PS2 and yeah it looks much better on my Mac but...my Mac could never display it on my 32 inch TV as well as the PS2 does, it kicks A**! The PS2 is a perfect complement to my Mac. It looks very cool in my Stereo rack. The DVD player capability is a great bonus too. The games are great looking, Madden Football looks almost real and is extremely addictive. After playing with it a while I'm glad I ordered it and did not get a dreamcast, PS2 is so much better. XBox is too far away, the PS2 is just getting started, by that time there will be games galore and accessories to boot! The GameCube looks attractive but Nintendo just doesn't have the momentum to make it great(...N64, hint, hint...)

Any hoo, my advice is if you don't like PS2 don't get one, I like it, I recommend it, I say get one when you can, it will be worth the wait. Don't be angry with Sony over the parts shortage. I'm sure they did everything they could to avoid it. They will fill in the gaps soon and have worked hard to bring us a great game console. It cost well over $1500 to play a GREAT game on a Mac(or a PC for that matter), $350 on a PS2 (If you already have a TV...) The PS2 is simple and fun and a perfect complement to any Mac household.

John...

I am glad you are happy and impressed with your ps2. i want one, but i dont know or think I will be able to get one until they become more widely available. I did'nt preorder so I have no choice. I saw a high res quicktime movie of madden 2k1 and oh boy it looks very sweet. Very real. I am excited also by the prospect of hooking up the ps2 to a 36 inch sony wega TV. Its gotta look great! Well..hopefully or mb I will try to find one at a store like best buy or something. Anyone know which stores didnt have pre-ordering for ps2? I would be willing to wait out a night for a system (maybe) to get one if I knew that there wasnt anypre-ordering at the store.

Oh well.

[seanyepez]

I love the PS2. It's an awesome deal. I want to play Unreal Tournament on that thing - I'm still in favor of getting a Dreamcast rather than a PlayStation 2 because of Quake. Quake is a game that I spend hours on end playing. I just can't live without it. Having yet another machine in my LAN parties is a plus for the Dreamcast.

Just for your information, I can build a PC that has PS2-quality graphics for about $800-850. That includes an AMD Duron at 800 megahertz, ASUS motherboard, 128 megabytes of PC100 RAM, a substantial hard drive (probably by Maxtor or Quantum), an nVidia GeForce^2 MX with 32 megabytes of graphics RAM, and a SoundBlaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1. Of course a DVD drive and a floppy drive are standard. I could add a modem by Lucent or USRobotics (now 3Com) for about twenty to fourty dollars (depending on the brand you choose).

The thing about console games I can't stand is the controllers. Each one has its own different controller. I'm very used to the "classic" keyboard and mouse combination. Thresh and Makaveli agree that the Dreamcast mouse doesn't update as much as they would have liked, and the sensitivity on the Dreamcast mouse isn't that great. I hope the PlayStation's mouse is better. The existance of "ps2rate" solves all my problem. It's one of those things that you can use to increase the rate at which your system polls the mouse for movement.

Gaming desktops are extremely cheap these days.

The PS2 is a great deal if all you're going to do is play games. Having an integrated web browser is an interesting concept.

I think I'm going to stick with the PC for my gaming needs for a while. The advantage of having a PC: expandability. You can swap out your old graphics card for a new one. The PS2 has everything integrated - it might be a plus for now, but later on, correct me if I'm wrong, you can't upgrade the graphics, can you?

[Adam Silver]

To quote Nintendo, "It's the software, not the hardware". You can have all the frames per second you want, but if the game isn't fun, I'm not playing.

When I can get all the games I listed in my previous post for Windows (or Mac), and get a complete system for a price comparable to a PS2, I'll switch.

Besides, Final Fantasy VIII for Windows was terrible.

[Arty50]

I left a similar post elsewhere on the MacNN boards today, but I thought I should leave my thoughts here also.

I finally played the PS2 at my friends house on monday, and it is a great system. I will buy it. However, there's a reason many of the people who have played both systems have said the Dreamcast is better. If you sit down and play both, you'll find out why. My friend and I both bought the Dreamcast the day it came out. He did the same with PS2 (I didn't have the money for it. Doh!). So anyway, we had to compare the two.

We started by comparing Tekken(PS2) to Soul Caliber(DC) and NFL2K1(DC) to Madden 2001(PS2). The Dreamcast won on both counts. The fighting game duel was the best comparison because both titles are made by Namco. While Tekken had slightly better backgrounds (relatively static objects) than Soul Caliber, everything to do with the foreground and the fighters themselves (relatively intensive movement) was MUCH better on the DC. Soul Caliber is just one of the most impressive games out. We both agreed on this and so did a few others that were watching us play.

The football games were almost worlds apart. If you haven't seen NFL2K than you're missing a treat. I have had several people walk by while I was playing the game and they initially thought a real football game was on TV. No joke. This has happened to quite a few friends of mine also. This game is simply spectacular. The AI for the announcers is the best ever by a mile. Their commentary is right on 99% of the time and its amazing how much variety the commentary has. Plus, the announcers are really funny. The game play is exemplary, especially with Maximum Passing. With this, you can use the analog stick to adjust your passes to land a specific distance and orientation to your receiver. It's awesome. Madden just wasn't that great. The game has a cartoony feel to it. Ignoring this and analyzing the graphics alone, we concluded that it was very good but not anything spectacular. Game play is alright, but the announcing sucked.

So far, 1st gen vs. 1st gen, the DC games look better. I will say that the PS1 demo for MGS when played on the PS2 looks amazing. It will be interesting to compare this to Shenmue when they're both out. Overall, we thought both systems were excellent. The great thing about the PS2 is that it's a full featured DVD player. This rocks. But as far as gaming is concerned, we both have to give the DC the nod.

[The Dude]

Dude here.

I have a question for you all regarding the PS2's VRAM. I am aware that it only has 4MB of it but I am beginning to wonder if Sony gave the console the ability to use unused system RAM (32MB). This would be a wise decision for Sony because it would expand the system's overall lifespan and make people like me shut up. So can it use system memory?

This might be the final factor that determines whether or not I will sell some of my older macs and consoles to buy the Playstation 2.

Thanks!

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Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

[This message has been edited by The Dude (edited 11-01-2000).]

Dude: Yep. Thats what happens. 4 megs of DEDICATED Vram. However, it can use the rest of the ram, just like AGP. so. Its all good.

Ca$h

[The Dude]

Well this is a first for me, but thanks ca$h. Sorry about the nuke thing in the lounge.

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Paranoia-
You only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile

-Unknown

[reader50]

Ars has an article comparing the PS/2 system design to a peecee's system design. It is technical and interesting, Sony traded cache memory for bandwidth in the design. This apparently causes texture map sizes to be limited by system memory rather than vram, sice one developer has managed to load the textures on the fly.