[chris v]

The museum where my wife works is thinking about updating their website, and want me to bid on it, after having seen my personal pages (don't ask me why).

I think they're maily looking for a new graphical look, with the overall structure staying more or less intact, so I wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, just make it look better, or different, anyway.

It's not too complex, looks like it's mostly done with tables, and there's a form or two, but it's a couple hundred pages, judging from the site map.

The current site is at <a href="http://www.tmm.utexas.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.tmm.utexas.edu/</a>

I'm thinking it's easily a 3 to 4 month project, since I'd essentially be working on it on weekends, evenings, etc. Do you charge by the hour? by the page? What's protocol, and what are some acceptable price ranges?

Or should someone with my limited (look at my
<a href="http://home.austin.rr.com/chrisvreeland" target="_blank">homepage</a> for chrissake!) experience, do the smart thing, and decline to bid?

CV

[bluedog]

Chris,

I recently put a proposal for work on a church website, doing a 3-tier approach to costs.

The first level was to create templates that could be used by a fairly technical user to create the content they wanted.

The second (fitting most with their request), was to make templates, but flesh out each section with a complete page. Then they would update the site by using the templates to add/change content.

The third was a PHP/MySQL content management system that would allow anyone with web access and minimal skill to add content and serve new articles/etc.

Each level ramped up in cost, but was no where near the size of the site you would be bidding on. I suggest looking at what you need to earn hourly, then step back and see the costs involved in creating the content. Don't spend time creating thing for them until you actually have the contract.

They've already seen what you can do and seemed to like it. Spend your time figuring what it will take to get it done. Then multiply it out and give them a 'total cost' figure. This way, you can then say after so much time, that you would bill them hourly. They get a good idea of the base cost and know if they continue asking for more you won't get shafted.

Make SURE you have them signing a contract agreeing in payment (partial payment with a cancel/kill fee for ending the project early). The contract (written AFTER the proposal should contain protection and assurances for BOTH parties). I'd be happy to send you a copy of what I put together via email if you like.

grantb at mac dot com

[ilukas]

it looks like a big project.
i don't have much experience in bidding for web sites, but i would ask them if they want just the current and new pages updated or everything, including the archives, updated. i say this because the archive's pages follow a different model than the home page (no menu, title graphic, etc.)

[Simon Mundy]

Step 1:

Start by seperating the content from the medium. They've got a lot to add, and a lot to dress up, and a static site of over 300 pages is a nightmare. And a huge waste to money. So get the whole lot burnt to a CD and you're ready to figure out how all that data gets put into a content management system.

Step 2:

Team up with a coder who's got experience with Scripting and Database creation. There's a lot of free or inexpensive content management programs out there, you just need someone who really knows what they're doing to make it safe and secure.

Step 3:

Identify 'key' pages that need designing. These usually include the home page and landing pages for top-level categories, as well as a selection of layouts that will cover the way you display most content. Add a couple of form page layouts, too, because the coders need some sort of guide to work from (otherwise they produce forms and search results that resemble dog turds).

Step 4:

Work out how long it will take you to design those pages in hours. Double that, and that's how long it will take you to hand it all over properly and sit over someone's shoulder and make sure they're building it right.

Factor in the cost of a coder at a similar amount of hours to yours, and multiply that by 1.5 (because things always take longer than they should).

And there's your hours multiplied by both you and your coder's hourly rate. Add some extra cost for sitting in on meetings, presentations and whatnot.

And heed the contract advice. So many people get burnt by not explicity stating what clients will and will not receive (like documentation, training, etc.)

After all that... still keen?

[chris v]

Thanks, all. You've given me the sense that I'm probably in over my head unless all they want is a simple redesign of the top- level pages. This just came up in casual conversation yesterday, and I really don't know what they're after. I suppose I'll go meet with them, and probably decline if they want more than just a simple redesign of the front 50 or so pages. I do have a regular day job, and I could see this taking control of the rest of my life. Not sure I want that.

Thanks,
CC

[bluedog]

Anyhow, the basic structure has been:

- 1 page straightforward description of what you can provide
- pricing for seperate options or additions to a basic structural creation
- examples of work

Then you would want to write up a contract AFTER you have come to an agreement with your proposal and would like to begin working for your client. The contract can contain all the details of how/when things will be completed and delivered. It can specify who is responsible for content and when it should be delivered to allow you to complete the work in a timely manner.

The contract should also allow for adjustments to the timeline with modifications, if necessary.

Hope this can assist you. I did some research in putting together my proposal because its significantly different than print-media or illustration. Check out the AIGA website or the Graphic Artists Guild for guidelines and assistance with contracts. They are two great organizations. <a href="http://www.aiga.org/" target="_blank">http://www.aiga.org/</a> and <a href="http://www.gag.org/" target="_blank">http://www.gag.org/</a>

If anyone else has suggestions, I'd be glad to hear 'em!