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nemo · Oct 18, 2001, 06:08 PM

which languages/apps should I start off with if I wanted to learn about creating websites?

thanks

macvillage.net · Oct 18, 2001, 07:38 PM

Languages: HTML4 and PERL (my recommendations)

For programs: Either GoLive or Dreamweaver and BBEdit, as well as Flash and some graphic program (photoshop or whatever)

geek77 · Oct 18, 2001, 08:57 PM

This is what I would recommend....

Learn HTML without a WYSIWYG editor. I use BBEdit, there is a free "Lite" veriosn available that should work. If you absolutely need a visual editor, I'd go with Dreamweaver, it doesn't mess with your code.

Learn and use CSS for formatting... stay away from font tags.

I would suggest PHP as a scripting language if your server supports it (OS X supports it).

I also use MySQL for database work. Like PHP, it's completely free and runs on Mac OS X.

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: geek77 ]

Patrick · Oct 18, 2001, 11:43 PM

HTML and Javascript are the most important, IMHO.

I'd recommend checking out http://www.htmlgoodies.com for learning both. Do HTML first though, or the other will confuse the hell out of you.

nemo · Oct 19, 2001, 08:03 AM

Many thanks for the replies,
it's a bit intimidating looking at all there is to learn - I'm familiar with the image manipulation programs, a bit of flash, print related apps and the very basics of html. Is xml a continuation of HTML?

Hmmm, I think I'll learn html properly first, then I'll take a look at Java. (thanks for the useful link)

macvillage.net · Oct 19, 2001, 04:42 PM

Don't bother learning JavaScript, just be able to reference.... it takes a while, and you never know it all... you are better of spending your time with other languages, with all the premade JavaScripts available, it is almost pointless to write your own mouseover when 10000000000 people already have one online for you to use.

Spectre666 · Oct 19, 2001, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by geek77:
<STRONG>

Learn and use CSS for formatting... stay away from font tags.

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: geek77 ]</STRONG>

I just want to backup this statement. Learn CSS now and it will save you a lot of frustration in the future. Nothing sucks more than having to go through an entire website and remove every single font tag....

ford prefect · Oct 20, 2001, 06:29 PM

For sure learn HTML inside and out. Learn how Javascript works, not necessarily everything about it.

If you want to make usefull websites that actually DO things rather than just sit there and look pretty, learn PHP or perl (though IMHO PHP is WAY easier to learn)

I'll add my approval of CSS (like you need my approval)

philzilla · Oct 20, 2001, 07:15 PM

learn everything, from scratch. learn how to code html using a text editor. work up to using fancy schmancy apps like dreamweaver, and get familiar with things like flash/director. then get yourself a date with a scripting language (i went out with Perl for a while, but she's a bitch). bit by bit, stuff falls into place and you pick things up. sooner or later, the scumbags who work with you will start to steal the work you do and not even credit you for ripping off your work totally. that's when you know you've left behind the 'learner/lamer' ranks.

hey, did i sound bitter there? jeez, i hope so. those guys were pc users anyhow, so who cares...

funkboy · Oct 21, 2001, 04:44 PM

I started off learning HTML by hand - all straight by hand, and all really, really basic stuff. I was confused for a long time how some people were making fonts on their pages in different colors

Just start basic and get a good foundation with HTML, then add to that whatever you need to complete a project. Javascript is probably pretty essential to learn for good interactivity in sites... I have yet to do so, though... I guess you can inspect my portfolio as to whether that's good or bad

I'm really getting into PHP and its many uses, but still in the learning stages.

It's important to simply have good taste and some basic knowledge of attractive design to make a good website. Something that has all the DHTML/Javascript/PHP goodies in the world can be destroyed by bad interface design. AskTog also has some really great articles on design in general... as well as lots of bashing of Apple's new direction (non-direction, rather) in interface design (the Dock, the awful QuickTime 4... *sigh* ) .

And phil, you seem to have about the perfect blend of bitterness and hatred to become the next disgruntled employee! Congratulations!

philzilla · Oct 21, 2001, 04:51 PM

i was holding back, but thanks man

Griggsy · Oct 25, 2001, 05:26 PM

Iearned with Wsiwyg software like Go-Live for HTML, but had the code box open at alltimes so I could see what it was writing, once you get use to HTML, you can start to modify as well as see what mistakes Go-live throws in for good measure

also BBEdit does rule quite spectacularly for sricpti editing get yourself a decent ftp client as well which allows full ascii or binary upload/download as well as alter your file permissions (fetch is best, avoid transmit),

best places for stuff, to make your site fancy are www.flashkit.com, www.cgi-resources.com and www.dynamicdrive.com,. Other than that just remeber one thing, I love CSS, I love CSS, I love CSS, I love CSS, etc

eyreka · Oct 25, 2001, 05:37 PM

I'd suggest you stay clear of GoLive, Dreamweaver or any similar WYSIWYG editor. Learn HTML 4 / XHTML 1 and CSS and use BBEdit, Layout Master, and Style Master (last 2 from WESTCIV, see www.westciv.com) for basics - plus of course Photoshop and Illustrator (or check out Canvas 8, see www.deneba.com). For scripting and database there's lots of stuff out there if you need it.

nemo · Oct 26, 2001, 03:51 AM

<<<

>>> thanks very much for the responses,
I'm half way through a very short (4 day) web design/construction course, they've based the course around golive and are concentrating on creating gifs, navigation and practical design.

I'll continue learning HTML /CSS and perhaps some Java - for now.
I'll definately check out all those links!

Patrick · Oct 27, 2001, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by nemo:
<STRONG>I'll continue learning HTML /CSS and perhaps some Java - for now.
I'll definately check out all those links!</STRONG>

Just make sure it's JavaScript and not Java - they have similar names, but there's not too much in common between them. Java is a programming language, which was developed by Sun. The people over at Netscape kind of stole the name for JavaScript. It had originally been called LiveScript in an earlier version, but they just had to confuse people by changing its name�