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Chuckmcd · May 28, 2002, 08:59 AM

I know there have been several threads that are related to this in the past but none of them really deal with my unique issue

sorry for the repeat is it is indeed redundant..

Anyway, through a twisted bit of circumstances I've ended up agreeing to do a web site for the my inlaws who are starting their own business. I was working on the design for a while and she was going to have someone local do the hosting. She signs up with some crackpot back in Florida ,where she lives, while I'm still working on the site. HE registers the domain name and starts doing his thing... not problem.

The site is not done, yet, apparently on ym mother-in-law's request this guys goes to my mac.com page, views source and steals the graphics and posts it up on his page. I didn't know about this until I was a little further into the site and then he stole the new stuff. The sties still wasn't done by my standards yet it's live out there with a BIG Stinking "BUILT BY XXX" banner on it, XXX being the company of the guy who's doing the hosting. He added one form to the site and maybe a few other minot text changes my mother-in-law has made.

My question is... what are my rights? I've been doing web design full time for about three years now, but nothing like this has ever happened to me. Oddly enough I could always trust clients farther than I can my mother-in-law. In legal action is the hosting company liable or would I have to go after my wife's mother? I'm certain some law has been broken, if nothing else the copyright on my work, but I'm not sure where to procede.

thanks,
Charlie

m a d r a · May 28, 2002, 10:29 AM

what your recourse in law would be, i dunno, but as far as proving ownership of the grafix is concerned, if you've got original versions of the graphic files as [eg.] layered photoshop documents i'd think it would be pretty easy for you to prove authorship as all mr. XXX will have are flattened and degraded gif or jpg versions.

philzilla · May 28, 2002, 10:58 AM

like yer man there said, always keep source files, like .psd's, .png's, etc, as well as any source perl/php/etc, that you might have commented. keep logs of everything. that way, if you can get this to a small claims court, or something, then you'll have all the proof you need, whilst the scuzzball theif has a few .gif's and some html and not much else.

also, if you're doing a rough layout for someone to see, then litter the gfx with "layout by me@blah.com" and stuff like that, so that nobody can go nicking it without having to do some majot coverup work on it

good luck and keep us posted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Chuckmcd · May 28, 2002, 11:01 AM

Thanks, and I have all the PSD files and the logs of when I uploaded and all that funs stuff. I guess the only action I can take is to go after the guy. AM I correct in thinking that everything belongs to me until I deliver it to the customer? I was thinking I read that someplace.

thanks,
Charlie

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by philzilla:
like yer man there said, always keep source files, like .psd's, .png's, etc, as well as any source perl/php/etc, that you might have commented. keep logs of everything. that way, if you can get this to a small claims court, or something, then you'll have all the proof you need, whilst the scuzzball theif has a few .gif's and some html and not much else.

also, if you're doing a rough layout for someone to see, then litter the gfx with "layout by me@blah.com" and stuff like that, so that nobody can go nicking it without having to do some majot coverup work on it

good luck and keep us posted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>

philzilla · May 28, 2002, 11:15 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Chuckmcd:
AM I correct in thinking that everything belongs to me until I deliver it to the customer? I was thinking I read that someplace.<hr /></blockquote>well, you are the one who generates the files. you put the hard work in. i'd say they're your "intellectual property" until you get some money for the job. i'm sure there's plenty of other legal words for how you own them, but i've seen "intellectual property" used in court cases before, so it's fair to say you could use that angle

post in the lounge, asking if there's any legal people, or people with legal knowledge, then direct them towards this thread, asking their advice. that's about all i can suggest, i'm afraid

i hope you get the money though, because i've had this kind of thing happen to me and it sucks. they still owe me �450 from about a year ago, which i'll never see. still, they never did get anyone to meet that ridiculous deadline and their site never got finished properly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Hobbes · May 28, 2002, 11:29 AM

I would have to go back and find it (seems like it was in an issue of Entrepreneur about a year or so ago) but actually, the design of a site remains the intellectual property of the designer even after its handed over to the client.

The article highlighted that there's been cases where a business hired a designer to create a unique site for their brand-new, never before conceived business, only to see another, almost identical site, a few months later, designed by the same designer.

The courts have ruled in favor of the designer, ruling that unless the designer signs an agreement relinquishing all rights to the design (the only other possible exception being if the client "design" or "lays out" the design and simply hires the web designer to "put it together"), it remains his intellectual property, for him to copy as he sees fit.

Like I said, I would have to find the article. But it seems to me that the law is on your side any way you look at the situation.

P.S. Also makes a good case for making any designers you may sub work out to, sign Intellectual Property Agreements... that way you own what they design for your company.

funkboy · May 28, 2002, 01:16 PM

Try to work it out with the guy if at all possible. Litigation should be a last resort as it sucks up time, money, and resources that could otherwise go to many other projects.

I hope this person's cooperative - regard him as another human being who wants to live a pleasant life just as you do, and you may be surprised at the positive outcome

(okay, enough optimism... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

Chuckmcd · May 28, 2002, 01:39 PM

I do NOT want this going to court. Honestly I don't see ho wthat would help any one except to make my wounded ego and sense of justice feel a little better.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm glad to know that I am right in thinking I still owned the stuff.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by funkboy:
Try to work it out with the guy if at all possible. Litigation should be a last resort as it sucks up time, money, and resources that could otherwise go to many other projects.

I hope this person's cooperative - regard him as another human being who wants to live a pleasant life just as you do, and you may be surprised at the positive outcome

(okay, enough optimism... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )<hr /></blockquote>

Simon Mundy · May 28, 2002, 07:00 PM

We just worked this one out with our solicitor in our T's and C's.

The simple ruling behind it is that you own the 'plans' and the raw materials - they own the finished product.

If you've got them to sign a contract, then you can stipulate that they don't even own it - you've just granted them an indefinite licence to use that material, much the same way as a software company.

I hope you don't have to go to court, either. Nasty business.