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Judge_Fire · Aug 27, 2002, 04:12 PM

Thought of this a long time ago. The screensaver as desktop thing reminded me... it might now be possible.

Background:

Sometimes there is a lot of visual clutter on the screen, lots of visual noise which you're not looking at. Usually there is one window, the top one, that you're focusing on the most. The others could be subdued just a bit to cool things down.

Proposed app:

A Focus Layer. ie a full- screen borderless window below your top- most (non- floating) window, which dims everything below it just a bit and possibly creates a slight effect of choice - ripples or blur for example.

As simple as a 50% translucent window that dims the background but still keeps it readable.

Or some Aquaish bluetinted OpenGL or QuickTime ripple, creating an underwater illusion, except for your frontmost window, which really pops out and feels floating on the surface.

Any takers ?

J

Gul Banana · Aug 27, 2002, 11:54 PM

This may well be possible, even without Jaguar - I'll go test a couple of ideas that I've got about it now.

geran · Aug 28, 2002, 12:08 PM

sounds really cool...

Judge_Fire · Aug 28, 2002, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by geran:
sounds really cool...

... and hopefully a bit useful, best of both worlds it could be

J

smeger · Aug 28, 2002, 04:23 PM

Wouldn't you need to patch the window manager to be notified everytime the frontmost window changed? Seems like that's the only tough thing about it.

Mactoid · Aug 28, 2002, 04:52 PM

actually, sounds to me like the toughtest part would be allowing clicks on your floating layer to fall through to the Windows behind them. There isn't a way to do that easily, is there?

Judge_Fire · Aug 28, 2002, 04:53 PM

There's also the issue of global floaters, which shouldn't count as 'top window'.

Dunno if that's an issue, but just wanted to point it out.

J

Judge_Fire · Aug 28, 2002, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Mactoid:
actually, sounds to me like the toughtest part would be allowing clicks on your floating layer to fall through to the Windows behind them. There isn't a way to do that easily, is there?

But clicks go through the 'Screensaver in Foreground' hack. Is there a difference?

J

smeger · Aug 28, 2002, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Mactoid:
actually, sounds to me like the toughtest part would be allowing clicks on your floating layer to fall through to the Windows behind them. There isn't a way to do that easily, is there?

I think that if a window is above a certain amount of transparency, it automatically becomes "transparent" to clicks.

Chuckit · Aug 29, 2002, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by smeger:

I think that if a window is above a certain amount of transparency, it automatically becomes "transparent" to clicks.

This level of opacity is so low that even if you had the window set to pure black, it probably would barely be noticable. I mean, not even the volume and brightness displays are transparent enough.

But what is this "screensaver in foreground" hack? Isn't the screensaver always in the foreground?

Judge_Fire · Aug 29, 2002, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by Chuckit:

But what is this "screensaver in foreground" hack? Isn't the screensaver always in the foreground?

Oops, I meant 'Screensaver as Desktop Pic in Foreground', of course - see this thread for info or just download the FackBore prefpane to try it out.

J

Chuckit · Aug 29, 2002, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Judge_Fire:

Oops, I meant 'Screensaver as Desktop Pic in Foreground', of course - see this thread for info or just download the FackBore prefpane to try it out.

That's interesting. I wish I had some spare cash so I could pick up a copy of Jaguar and try it myself. But if it is true that the ScreenSaverEngine has a new hidden ability to run in the foreground and remain transparent to clicks, hopefully that means Apple has some API coming.

Out of curiosity, would anyone care to check if the volume/brightness indicators have this now too?

mbordas · Aug 29, 2002, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by Chuckit:

Out of curiosity, would anyone care to check if the volume/brightness indicators have this now too?

yea, the volume/brightness indicators are now transparent to clicks, they didnt used to be in 10.1

mbordas

Mactoid · Aug 30, 2002, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by mbordas:
yea, the volume/brightness indicators are now transparent to clicks, they didnt used to be in 10.1

This is really cool news! I wish I was able to try it out, but one of the perks of being a student member of ADC is that you get to be the last kid on the block who gets the system updates

Anyway, I always though that with all the transparency in the system, it would be obvious to have a separate mask for the clickable region. That being the case, I think this program should be fairly simple now.

Chuckit · Aug 30, 2002, 06:22 AM

By golly, it's right there in the documentation.

Code:
[aWindow setIgnoresMouseEvents:YES]

D'oh. Should've thought to look in the Jaguar docs instead of mine.

Judge_Fire · Sep 1, 2002, 07:47 AM

I made some quick mockups to illustrate the visual effect of the proposed app.

There are 5 1024 x 768 sized 130 KB .jpgs there, so zoom up that window.

(You can click on the big pics to get back to the index.)

How do you find the effect? I like the way it subdues the visual clutter.

Oh and BTW, I can host any related files, too,

J

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 07:31 AM

I have got this almost working. The one thing stopping me from posting a functional beta is attempting to receive notifications when the user switches windows. It seems that NSWindows don't send their notifications through the default notification center, making it a bit hard to determine that another window has become the key one:/

Ibson · Sep 2, 2002, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
I have got this almost working. The one thing stopping me from posting a functional beta is attempting to receive notifications when the user switches windows. It seems that NSWindows don't send their notifications through the default notification center, making it a bit hard to determine that another window has become the key one:/

What about registering as the delegate of each window?

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 08:11 AM

To do that, I'd need to somehow get a pointer to every window created by every application; then there's the fact that Carbon windows don't have delegates. Not Objective-C ones, at least

I've come up with a partial solution, though, and you can download the first beta here. It's pretty much functionally complete, with only two bugs remaining:
a) It doesn't work with standard Finder windows (you can't click through it to them).
b) Nor does it work with multiple windows of the same application (you can have more than one of them "focussed" at once).

Other than these (serious, I realize) limitations, what do people think? Please try it out so far and give me your thoughts, comments, and suggestions.. things like preferences for colour and opacity of the defocussed layer are easy enough to implement, but I'm sure there are things I haven't thought of. Also, any insight as to how I might receive a notification when someone switches windows within an app is muchly appreciated...

Chuckit · Sep 2, 2002, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
I have got this almost working. The one thing stopping me from posting a functional beta is attempting to receive notifications when the user switches windows. It seems that NSWindows don't send their notifications through the default notification center, making it a bit hard to determine that another window has become the key one:/

If you can already tell what window is main, couldn't you just try polling? Run a loop (say, every second or half-second) to see whether the main window has changed. It's not the optimal route, but it sounds like enough to get a functional beta while you're trying to work around it.

(By the way, if you feel like sharing, how did you get the frontmost window? All of the AppKit and Window Manager functions seem to apply to the calling application only.)

00101001 · Sep 2, 2002, 01:31 PM

Ok, I've been playing around with this app too -- and am also having a few of the same problems...

http://homepage.mac.com/christinasidoti/ff.dmg

like your's, one bug is that you cannot click through to any Carbon apps -- (including the Finder)... however, i did nab the one so that you can focus on only one window (of the same app) at a time.

Gul Banana, im more than willing to swap sources -- maybe we can learn something and come up with a fully functional version together...

let me know what you think -- i think the only remaining problem is passing mouse clicks through to carbon apps -- does anyone know how to tap into like a "global" event server to post a click event?

Judge_Fire · Sep 2, 2002, 02:37 PM

!!!

00101001 · Sep 2, 2002, 04:50 PM

here's a small update:

http://lorenb.dyndns.org/f02c.dmg

server is temporary -- i would appreciate it if someone could host it for me

(only 80kb)

still doesn't work with carbon apps

, but you can now set the color in the prefs...

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 06:15 PM

Source-swapping sounds like a good idea to me. I like your icon, and I very much like your ability to notice app window switching (does that work in Carbon apps?). I do think, though, that it might be a good idea to have preferences in a dock menu, and that you need to compensate for screen resolution changes.. then again, I've already written that one

Feel free to email me at castiglione at mac.com (spam = bad) or rcastigl@bigpond.net.au.

I think I've cracked Carbon click-throughs.. in principle. Implementing it may take a little longer.

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 06:40 PM

YES!
*0wns Carbon applications*

00101001 · Sep 2, 2002, 06:43 PM

HOW?!?!?!?!?!?

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 07:09 PM

It's in the email

00101001 · Sep 2, 2002, 07:48 PM

dude... you rock. here's an update:

http://lorenb.dyndns.org/f03b.dmg

00101001 · 09:54 PM

another:: i added a mode to work like yours -- all windows of the current app remain focused. Next, im going to play around with textures and animations and stuff -- but that's a long ways off

http://homepage.mac.com/christinasidoti/f04.dmg

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 09:46 PM

Not to be outdone, I offer you the opportunity to download FocusLayer v1.0 here. It has more preferences, which actually stick, a Readme file (gasp!) and works with everything I've tried! However, it has an ugly icon:/

What sort of features would people like, now that the basic functionality is complete? Of course, if there are still fundamental bugs, please let me know!

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 09:49 PM

Argh! Just as I fix a bug, you add it as a feature! Alas, I have to leave now, and can't immediately update FocusLayer.. but my consolation is that your download link is broken

00101001 · Sep 2, 2002, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
Of course, if there are still fundamental bugs, please let me know!

it screws up photoshop...

00101001 · 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
Argh! Just as I fix a bug, you add it as a feature! Alas, I have to leave now, and can't immediately update FocusLayer.. but my consolation is that your download link is broken

nooooo !!!

Fear not, fans of Focus 0.4 -- the autosaving of user defaults will come if not tonight -- then Tomorrow!!!

(im getting to work... he he he, you australians with your silly time-zones

)

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 10:53 PM

FocusLayer version history for 1.0.1 release:

� Improved Photoshop compatibility somewhat. FocusLayer doesn't fully work with it (since Photoshop draws many 'windows' in one actual window), but it doesn't cause any problems or unusual behaviour and sometimes even functions correctly.
[Edit: Just noting that while that might not sound too positive, it's still better than Focus 0.4

Bwahahahaha!]
� Changing interval no longer requires restart.
� Icon looks much nicer now
� File size reduced

download

I decided not to reimplement the per-application mode because that approach has some inherent bugs; in Focus 0.4, try switching from a Cocoa application to a Carbon one a few times - for example Omniweb to Finder.

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 10:57 PM

And NOW I'm leaving

00101001 · Sep 2, 2002, 10:59 PM

yes, well now IM going to sleep -- my only consolation is that YOUR download link is broken

Gul Banana · Sep 2, 2002, 11:58 PM

Curses! Foiled again! Evil acting-up iDisk, I'll use another server. However, this just gives me time to release...
FocusLayer 1.1!
Apart from some minor tidyups behind the scenes, the big thing is that clicking the dock icon now toggles FocusLayer on or off... and you can download it here.

mpmchugh · Sep 3, 2002, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
FocusLayer 1.1!

Just discovered this thread and tried out the app... very cool! I did notice that BBedit has some problems with it, in that it doesn't always unfocus the previous window when swithing to it. Maybe something with the BBedit palettes?

---

Just tried closing the three palettes I had open in BBedit and that solved the problem, though I always have the HTML palette open... oh well.

-mpm

geran · Sep 3, 2002, 04:38 AM

can someone post some screenshots?

Judge_Fire · Sep 3, 2002, 04:46 AM

I can host.

The files (and a page, if you want to) would be at http://aukio.com/yourappname

Contact me at judge_fire@mac.com

Now I'll try them out...

J

Gul Banana · Sep 3, 2002, 07:07 AM

I'm fine as far as hosting goes - four seperate places I could put it, in fact

I should warn anybody who's downloaded FocusLayer 1.1 of a stupid "bug" that I didn't notice because of its nature - it doesn't automatically generate a preferences file, so it won't do anything until you've set an interval and colour in the prefs. It really should set up a default one, which I'll quickly put together into 1.1.1. 1.0 was a bit of a misnomer, maybe

I think I'll put this on VersionTracker, actually, but first I'll look at the problems with BBEdit (I've got it, but haven't tried FL with it - at least not when I have palettes open).

(For anyone experiencing that defaults problem, which will probably show up as FL simply not doing anything, try an interval of 0.15 and a colour of 50% pure black...)

Gul Banana · Sep 3, 2002, 08:14 AM

FocusLayer 1.1.1 is complete, and the program is now pretty much finished (aside from the palettes issue, which could well be impossible to fix with the way I'm doing it). This is the version going on VersionTracker, so if anybody has any last-minute bug reports or feature requests, please feel free. For the people who wanted screenshots: it's only a 40KB download, and the best way to see it is in action. Judge_Fire's mockups are also very accurate to the final thing.

00101001 · Sep 3, 2002, 12:01 PM

well done, Gul Banana -- it still doesn't work with photoshop -- and i like my icon better, maybe you should add an application mode like Focus 0.5...

http://homepage.mac.com/christinasidoti/Focus05.dmg

- fixed bug in application-based mode that leaves trailing window from previous application
- resolution switching
- user defaults (that stick)

the application mode is sometimes more useful than plain-old window mode...and actually works with photoshop

- i only had 10 minutes to update it before my next class, so there may be some lingering bugs -- but it work really well for me.

maybe I'll put it up on version tracker too

Mactoid · 05:58 PM

The app looks great Banana. I did however get a crash when I was clicking on it's icon in the dock. Would you like a copy of the crash log?

edit: the crash is completely repeatable for me. All I have to do is click on the dock icon rapidly several times in a row and the app dies every time.

DayLateDon · Sep 3, 2002, 05:50 PM

Hello ...

Both FocusLayer and Focus seem to work okay under cursory testing on my system. (Don't have BBEdit or Photoshop, so I can't comment there.) Good work.

Some comments and suggestions:

I like the idea of "Application Mode".

Can the Dock be left uncovered?

I think it's a little disorienting (based on expectations that these apps are all about focussing attention on a _window_) that the focus barrier shows when there's no window open. (It makes a bit of sense in Application Mode, though.) However, I think this is an opportunity for a UI enhancement: When there are no windows open, draw a largish image of the application's icon in the center of the focus barrier. As Tech Facilitator at a school, I see _regularly_ where people get all confused (clicking on a running program icon over and over, for instance) about what program is on top if there are no windows open. (The title in the menu bar just doesn't seem to be a big enough hint.)

I wonder which app --FocusLayer or Focus-- will be the first to implement the rippling water effect (and play a "splash" sound when the top window changes). That'll be _cool_ ... and probably worth a few bucks ...

Regards,

DayLateDon

DayLateDon · Sep 3, 2002, 05:55 PM

Bug report (both programs):

A minimized-then-unminimized window gets tinted and remains tinted until you switch back to the application from another.

(Running Jaguar on an iMac G3 400.)

Regards,

DayLateDon

Gul Banana · Sep 3, 2002, 06:44 PM

Ooh, the competition's getting serious now

Mactoid, I would very much like your crash log, and it does seem that Application mode is something I should put back in. To quote Sir Humphrey Appleby: "I am fully seized of your aims and objectives, have taken them on board and am working to implement them as soon as is reasonably possible."
By which he meant "I won't do it," but I mean that all these suggestions have been added to my To Do list

Alas, I have work to do for a while now, so don't expect FL 1.2 (or whatever) today.

mpmchugh · Sep 3, 2002, 07:16 PM

FYI...

Just tried both Focus and FocusLayer on my dual monittor set tup at work, and neither seems to work on the second display at all. I have Radeon 8500 Dual Display card.

-mpm

00101001 · Sep 3, 2002, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
Alas, I have work to do for a while now, so don't expect FL 1.2 (or whatever) today.

Same here... maybe we can expect a cease-fire for a day or two. Expect a complete re-write by the weekend... I have a couple of secret-special features up my sleeve (including dual-monitor support), but not enough time right now.

Good luck Gul Banana... I'll update on saturday

-LB

Mactoid · Sep 3, 2002, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
Ooh, the competition's getting serious now Mactoid

Hehe, indeed it is. If only we saw competition this intense in the the browser wars!

You should be getting the crash log in your email soon. Thanks to both of you for the good work