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S|ntax · Sep 12, 2002, 12:24 AM

what tools do you use to write your code? i have been using project builder but i keep hearing how great codewarrior is, is it worth switching? anything else that is better?

Rickster · Sep 12, 2002, 02:24 PM

It sort of depends on what you're developing for. If you're writing CFM Carbon apps that run on both OS X and OS 9, CodeWarrior is the only option. If you're writing Mac OS X-only Carbon apps (with bundled Mach-O binaries), you can use either CodeWarrior or ProjectBuilder -- which is up to you, and you decision might be influenced by the amount of legacy code you have. Most Cocoa developers prefer ProjectBuilder, though the new CodeWarrior 8 is said to support Cocoa development.

Kristoff · Sep 13, 2002, 10:48 AM

If you doing Java, use Forte (aka Sun One Studio) or Netbeans

MadBrowser · Sep 13, 2002, 04:43 PM

I've heard that Eclipse is really good for Java, but I haven't tried it yet.

I didn't like NetBeans/Forte...

I've actually grown to love Project Builder and Terminal.app for my Java stuff. Works great for me. Combining PB with Jakarta Ant, and all my J2EE builds are done and deployed for me. Good stuff.

I used to use CodeWarrior back in the day. Hated it. Very unstable program, but probably still good/required for a lot of older Carbon dev stuff.

My C/C++ dabbling in PB has been fine, but I've hardly pushed the envelope.

stew · Sep 17, 2002, 05:26 AM

I don't think there's a OS X version of Eclipse, is there?
I like Codewarrior, I use it at work. Unfortunately, I don't have the cash for a private licence. I'd love to build some OS 9 software - I know MPW is free, but most 3rd party SDKs (also some Apple SDKs) build on CW rather than MPW.
Does ProjectBuilder use multiple CPUs? I never ran CW for Mac on a SMP computer, but CW for BeOS gained almost 100% compling speed when I added a 2nd CPU.

Kristoff · Sep 17, 2002, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by MadBrowser:
I've heard that Eclipse is really good for Java, but I haven't tried it yet.

I didn't like NetBeans/Forte...

Combining PB with Jakarta Ant, and all my J2EE builds are done and deployed for me. Good stuff.

Hmmm...what exactly didn't you like?

Ant is cool, but it's one more thing to maintain.

Forte for Java 4.0 Enterprise Ediition has Ant built in--but with all the other features, our team never needs it.

It has seemless EJB creation with automatic synchronization of your Remote, Home, Local, and Local Home interfaces. All you have to do is code up your bean (the wizard even stubs it out for you), and the interfaces are updated with your create, finder, and business methods where appropriate.

Also, it has automatic Value Object generation.

It has BMP Entity, CMP Entity, Stateful Session, Stateless Session, and Message Driven bean templates.

Also, it has a great UI for managing your Deployment Descriptors.

Whith one, click build/deploy and in-process debugging with JBoss, our team has increased productivity substantially since switching from NetBeans.

cutterjohn · Sep 18, 2002, 11:32 PM

Frankly, unless you REALLY REALLY MUST have legacy/classic MacOS support, or are making a living off of MacOS programming I don't see how you could justify $600 for a single language compiler. The only additional benefit of codewarrior is MFC(M$ cross compiling support, i.e. you can, in theory, write Windoze apps with it.)

Basically Motorola/Metrowerks have priced themselves out of the hobbyist market. (Makes M$ devstudio look like a bargain! ...and devstudio is probably the only halfway decent M$ app(s) that I've used. Codewarrior, for what it is, should be about $100 tops. I could see $600 IF cw also included Palm development libraries/compiler, embedded compilers, etc. Oh yeah, cw also has powerplant for Classic/Carbon dev, but IMHO it's not so hot.)

ProjectBuilder is a GREAT tool for CLI, Java, Objective-C, C++, C coding, and it comes at the right price $0. IMHO PB interfaces into Cocoa/Java documentations better as well. what? supports basic Java, AWT/Swing Java, Cocoa Java, Cocoa, Carbon, CLI(UNIX? traditional? what do we call it?) C, PHP, Perl, Python (not sure about highlighting in the editor on the last two...) etc.)

I've heard good things about Forte but Sun makes you jump through too many hoops for me to bother getting it.

Emacs, Gvim have good syntax and external program execution support if you're going to be using compilers that have CLI tools. (I like gvim, or vi failing gvim, emacs is just too much bloat.)

There was another decent Java based editor with compiler support, but the name escapes me at the moment. (like Emacs/gvim it supported syntax coloring for just about every language in existence. Little slow, but not too bad.)

All of these editors support some form of external/integrated compiler/interpreter calling, so they, essentially act as IDEs. Most also have other features not mentioned like auto-indenting, brace matching, etc. ad nauseum.

One other thing not mentioned was that Metrowerks used to have one of the best ppc compilers around, although IIRC MPW's MrC was even better at optimizing ppc code. As it stands now MW cw had better optimization that gcc 2.95.x which was pre-10.2 compiler. I'm not exactly sure how gcc 3.1(10.2 default compiler) stacks up against MW CW.) In any event like I said at the start unless you are making money, enough to support yourself on, I still don't think that the minor optimization increase is worth $600.

Also IIRC at points in the past MW CW also supported Pascal(defunct?) and Java(defunct?) and a Perl plugin.

Grrr, ok last also, but this one is a pet peeve of mine: as a $600 piece of software it comes with a dinky little useless manual, the cheap SOBs. You know for $600 I'd expect all the dox to be printed/nicely bound. (Most of the time I prefer printed/bound documentation with a GOOD index to online help.)

absmiths · Sep 19, 2002, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by MadBrowser:
I've heard that Eclipse is really good for Java, but I haven't tried it yet.

I didn't like NetBeans/Forte...

I've actually grown to love Project Builder and Terminal.app for my Java stuff. Works great for me. Combining PB with Jakarta Ant, and all my J2EE builds are done and deployed for me. Good stuff.

I used to use CodeWarrior back in the day. Hated it. Very unstable program, but probably still good/required for a lot of older Carbon dev stuff.

My C/C++ dabbling in PB has been fine, but I've hardly pushed the envelope.

As someone who actually owned an MW license from release 4 all the way to Pro 6 (that's like 10 versions!), I think it is easily the best IDE I have ever used. I haven't updated since Pro 6 because the water got a little murky in the transition to OS X. I found it to be the most stable Mac OS 7/8/9 app around. It did include a little dinky manual, but also had a CD with about ~600 MB's worth of documents.

Nowadays I just use Forte with Ant.

absmiths · Sep 19, 2002, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by cutterjohn:
I've heard good things about Forte but Sun makes you jump through too many hoops for me to bother getting it.

How lazy is that - you have to follow like 3 links, then you can download a full-featured, cross-platform Java IDE. Now that I consider it, you are right, how dare they!