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Nebagakid · Oct 23, 2002, 06:36 PM

well, here is my idea:

It would be an equation writer. There are few programs that do this nicely, of dragging in elements, and then being able to add stuff. First of all, in the elements, there would be different sets for different types of math, for geometry, it would have symbols for angles and circles and such. Secondly, you could edit the exponent, the subscript, fractions, EVERYTHINGS!

It would also have the idea of hidden elements. The number 2 has hidden elements such as the exponent and the denominator of 2. So, if a person were to double click on it, it would expand to show all that. They can also choose to have the thing factor out: 2x could also be written as (2*x)^1/1

So, eventually, there would be a nice looking formula (with some number being larger than others because of the way it would be formatted (fractions would making the line double in height, so regular numbers would double in height)) And it could be exported in various formats, or maybe :copied?

00101001 · Oct 23, 2002, 08:52 PM

how about equation editor? it comes with Office.... does the same thing (i think � unless i'm missing something)

it would be nice to have something free, though.

Nebagakid · Oct 23, 2002, 09:18 PM

free is always nice

Thinine · Oct 23, 2002, 10:45 PM

Equation editor looks like crap and it would be nice have a app like that was described. Also, you have to purchase office to get ee.

VEGAN · Oct 24, 2002, 03:09 AM

Take a look at LaTeX, TeXShop.
TeX is what REAL scientists use. Like I've told so many times, there's nothing but (La)TeX if you are writing a scientific paper.

hayesk · Oct 24, 2002, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by VEGAN:
Take a look at LaTeX, TeXShop.
TeX is what REAL scientists use. Like I've told so many times, there's nothing but (La)TeX if you are writing a scientific paper.

In University, lots of people swore by LaTex. I always felt using LaTex to write a paper is akin to using assembly language to write software. I usually used WordPerfect with the Equation editor, and my stuff seemed to look as good as everyone elses, with the exception of that tired old LaTex default fault.

Richard Edgar · Oct 24, 2002, 05:47 PM

I usually used WordPerfect with the Equation editor, and my stuff seemed to look as good as everyone elses

If it really looked as good, I'd be impressed. It's usually quite simple to tell if someone has used some other package instead of LaTeX - the output quality isn't nearly as good. I've never used Word Perfect, but IME, LaTeX scores over Word in the following ways:
a) It produces decent looking output
b) It actually works
I consider the latter to be especially important.

This said, LaTeX is not without its problems - for a start, its grammar could use regularising, at the very least.

mahrz · Oct 25, 2002, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
If it really looked as good, I'd be impressed. It's usually quite simple to tell if someone has used some other package instead of LaTeX - the output quality isn't nearly as good. I've never used Word Perfect, but IME, LaTeX scores over Word in the following ways:
a) It produces decent looking output
b) It actually works
I consider the latter to be especially important.

This said, LaTeX is not without its problems - for a start, its grammar could use regularising, at the very least.

I've thought that LaTex is too complicated and unproductive to the point where I had to write my first >20 pages scientific report in school... Now I'm doing almost everything using LaTex. Word cann't do such nice indices/captions/bibliographies and equations. The other reason is if I tell word to place something somewhere it destroys my whole layout ! And the equations may look good but it's somewhat unproductive to use the equation editor because you have to switch between mouse and keyboard at least 20 times per equation ..... And it does wonderful PDF for free (with hyperlinks etc) !

VEGAN · Oct 25, 2002, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by mahrz:

I've thought that LaTex is too complicated and unproductive to the point where I had to write my first >20 pages scientific report in school... Now I'm doing almost everything using LaTex. Word cann't do such nice indices/captions/bibliographies and equations. The other reason is if I tell word to place something somewhere it destroys my whole layout ! And the equations may look good but it's somewhat unproductive to use the equation editor because you have to switch between mouse and keyboard at least 20 times per equation ..... And it does wonderful PDF for free (with hyperlinks etc) !

Same here, the first paper was a pain. You know, used to other programs... but then I started to catch up and now I only use LaTeX and `pico' and TextEdit [in this order].

Richard Edgar · Oct 26, 2002, 02:44 AM

I forgot one other major virtue of LaTeX - file size. I first learnt it because I had to write a 3000 word report in only 5Mb of disk space. That simply wasn't going to happen with Word. There was also another report of similar length that, including all the figures, bibliography etc. would fit on a floppy disk.

And do you really think that Word's equations look good? Last time I compared them to LaTeX output they were utterly hideous.

Nebagakid · Oct 26, 2002, 07:33 AM

So, is anyone interested in working on this program?

absmiths · Oct 28, 2002, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Nebagakid:
So, is anyone interested in working on this program?

Sounds to me like you have a resounding "Use LaTEX." Besides, what developer would spend time writing such an app for you when the certain response would be "I won't use that until it can do yyyyyy like LaTEX, and be 100% LaTEX compatible."

hayesk · Oct 28, 2002, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
I forgot one other major virtue of LaTeX - file size. I first learnt it because I had to write a 3000 word report in only 5Mb of disk space.

Uhm... I've written 3000 word reports that fit on 800K floppy disks using Word, including bib, figures, equations, etc.

mihai · Oct 28, 2002, 09:46 PM

An equation writer would be cool if it integrated with Ink (so you can just write the equation in) and/or with Matlab/Mathematica so that you could graph it, evaluate it for certain values, etc. Otherwise, like it's been said, there really isn't much point to it.

Richard Edgar · Oct 29, 2002, 02:20 AM

Uhm... I've written 3000 word reports that fit on 800K floppy disks using Word, including bib, figures, equations, etc.

Which version? Because Word 97 was really not interested in producing small files. The previous year I'd written a similarly sized report in Word, and it was a multi-megabyte behemoth. Furthermore, the cross-referencing didn't work, and I had to do all the pagination myself.

Besides, what developer would spend time writing such an app for you when the certain response would be "I won't use that until it can do yyyyyy like LaTEX, and be 100% LaTEX compatible."

I think that's a little unfair. Speaking personally, I would be prepared to sacrifice 100% LaTeX compatibility, provided the new program worked better than LaTeX. However, the latter requirement is not easy.

hayesk · Oct 29, 2002, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Which version? Because Word 97 was really not interested in producing small files. The previous year I'd written a similarly sized report in Word, and it was a multi-megabyte behemoth.

Why, the best version of Word ever made, of course. Version 5.1 for MacOS.

Furthermore, the cross-referencing didn't work, and I had to do all the pagination myself.

I'll give you that - Word's cross-referencing sucks. I'm lucky enough to have FrameMaker at work. Though I hear Nisus has bought a budding shareware product (Okito?) with nice long doc. features to integrate into NisusWriter.

Richard Edgar · Oct 29, 2002, 01:20 PM

A further prowl through my home directory popped up another project in LaTeX: 400 pages, over 350000 words and equations from the lower pits of Hell (they had to be split over several lines). Final size: 1200k.

msykes · Oct 29, 2002, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by VEGAN:
Take a look at LaTeX, TeXShop.
TeX is what REAL scientists use. Like I've told so many times, there's nothing but (La)TeX if you are writing a scientific paper.

:-) You should come by my lab sometime, where plenty of REAL scientists work. It's been awhile since we've had a LaTeX vs. Everything Else holy war going on.

Plenty of REAL science gets done and published without using LaTeX, which is not to say that LaTex isn't a wonderful tool.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a good, free (cheap?) equation editor as described. I bet a lot of people could get use out of it for creating formulas that they would implement into webpages, particularily people involved in education.