[365]

I'm just starting out programming, I've been building web sites and learned how to hack around a little in Perl but I decided I would learn a new skill so three weeks ago I purchased WebObjects 5.1 with a view to learning how to program Java before moving on to learn WO.

I purchased a full retail version of the software, cost £540 and now three weeks later I'm told that I have to spend the same amount to get version 5.2!

Well I've just learned a bitter lesson, I hope Apple spend my money well because it's the last penny they'll get out of me, I'll learn J2EE now and stick my WO 5.1 on eBay.

OSX is a great product from a lousy company, it's just a pity that there is no credible opposition.

[hayesk]

Part of me says no. Here's why:

1. This is enterprise software. Enterprise software is not sold and marketed like consumer software. It used to sell for tens of thousands of dollars. The retail price is probably cheaper than what upgrades used to be.

2. WebObjects doesn't sell a lot. Again, it's not consumer software. The WebObjects team has to support themselves - would you rather they charged 1500 pounds for the software and 200 pounds for an upgrade?

3. Why do you need the upgrade? If they didn't release it, you'd be just as happy. Your 5.1 won't stop working because of 5.2 being released; continue to use and learn it. Upgrade when you need to in a year or two or whenever - there'll probably be a newer version by then, anyway.

But the other part of may says, yeah, I'd probably be a little ticked, but I'd get over it, and certainly wouldn't sell my copy. If I'd bought 5.1, I would have bought it knowing it was worth the money. A newer version doesn't change that.

After all this, check back with Apple in a week or two. Maybe they will offer an upgrade. The product was just released a couple of days ago, they might not have an upgrade package all put together yet.

[tdgrmsn]

Woah, that's a big jump from free and open Perl to Webobjects, and I don't just mean in dollars.

Why not first learn one of the many free and/or open java/J2EE packages out there? Jakarta Tomcat running with Apache, JBoss for the full J2EE stack, Orion, Enhydra, etc. There are others but I've not looked into this stuff in a while.

In short, using a free version of a more widely-used implementation (J2EE or subset of) seems more sensible then jumping in with both feet, paying Apple a bunch of cash (and being burned on the update), when you're not even sure you'll like it.

You may go right back to perl, or python or php, etc. Many people have done just that. While popular and great in many ways, java is not appropriate for everything -- best to check it out before dropping lots of cash...

Good luck.

[juanvaldes]

call them up, explain your situation and see what they say. It woln't hurt to ask.

If I was them I would rather try to accomidate a recent customer then to piss them off for life.

[365]

hayesk - I realise that Apple are in business to make a profit and if I bought this software 6 months ago, while I would still be a bit sore, I would understand but THREE weeks, that hurts. Still I guess that they need all the money they can if they're having to pay Steve Jobs 44 Million Dollar quarterly bonuses, after all he's the man, I'm just a customer that has spent in excess of $10,000 in the last 6 months on Apple equipment, equipment that collectively has been away for fourteen repairs (that's another story for another place)!!

As an Apple user of many years (I also worked for them in the Nineties), I understand that we (Apple users) are suckers for letting Apple shaft us whilst still defending them without hesitation, thing is I'm now getting older and wiser and I'm starting to question whether my loyalty is misguided.

tdgrmsn - You're spot on here but I'm an impulsive person and I decided that my next web server would be an XServe and WebObjects was the obvious product for building database driven web applications that run on the Apple box. I think I'll be taking your advice and using some freeware J2EE solution on an cheaper server.

Juanvaldes - I rang and wrote to Apple and the official line is, no upgrade path to 5.2 for ANYONE. Bought it three weeks ago, tough cookies.

Like I say great products but a crap company that is the epitome of corporate arrogance.

[Ghoser777]

Why don't you just use 5.1? Would you go complain to a car compnay if you bought a top of the line car 3 weeks before they offer a new car? And how far back should Apple go? If I bought Quicktime a month before they released 5.0, should I get an upgrade path? What about a month and a half? 2? Is there really a difference between a person who bought it a week before and a person who bought it a week and a day before (they've had deals like that before).

Matt

[365]

Originally posted by Ghoser777:
Why don't you just use 5.1? Would you go complain to a car compnay if you bought a top of the line car 3 weeks before they offer a new car? And how far back should Apple go? If I bought Quicktime a month before they released 5.0, should I get an upgrade path? What about a month and a half? 2? Is there really a difference between a person who bought it a week before and a person who bought it a week and a day before (they've had deals like that before).

Matt

I'm not going to use 5.1 because I need to learn the product first and I would now rather learn something that I'm not going to be finacially penalised for using in the future.

I wasn't asking for a free upgrade I wanted a price less than the full retail that I paid for just 20 days ago. After all, we aren't talking a v5 to v6 upgrade here, this is a .1 to .2 upgrade.

Price for upgrades are usually very simple, an upgrade from the last version costs slightly less than an upgrade from any previous version.

I've thought about this upgrade in the last few days and I honestly believe that Apple's movement towards closer J2EE integration as well as pushing JBoss on their ADC site, signals an intention to cease WebObjects development in the future.

[Angus_D]

Can't ADC Online and above download the trial version from ADC? And then you can use your WO5 reg code, I don't see why that wouldn't work.