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MacGorilla · Nov 21, 2002, 04:25 PM

This software development suite is for sale. What would be a fair price? $2,000? $5,000, $10,00...more? I am thinking of joining a group that may try to buy and we want to know what everyone thinks.

yeslekmc · Nov 21, 2002, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
This software development suite is for sale. What would be a fair price? $2,000? $5,000, $10,00...more? I am thinking of joining a group that may try to buy and we want to know what everyone thinks.

Before you buy... Have you actually used this product before? It's certainly no REALBasic or FutureBasic and needs a lot of work. But for the right price it could be a great starting point for turning it into something else or for cleaning it up and enhancing it a bit.

Maybe you have plans to turn it into something else? Like Visual Mac Standard COBOL or Visual Mac Standard Turtle -- just kidding! That's a joke, even though I wouldn't be shocked to find someone who would have a need for such a thing. There's always room for people to provide a need that fits a niche.

clarkgoble · Nov 21, 2002, 11:10 PM

I've not used it (nor heard of it before). However the basic parser set up for any interpreted Basic isn't that hard. Exactly what is included in the source code? (I assume you mean purchasing the source code for the development system and not just buying the system to develop under)

This is a link I found to it.

http://www.unboxed.com/MoreInfo/ZCurve/index.html

It looks like you'll probably need a LOT of work to update it for OSX. The compiler part of it might be OK if it is a good compiler. Does it compile to a meta-code or to actual PPC?

I'd have a look at the source code before purchasing it. Having developed both query and data analysis languages before in which I took over from someone else, I can attest that cleaning up these sorts of programs is often non-trivial. Check out how well their code is commented and if the basic logic is both clear and easy to expand.

To be honest, checking the above link, I'm not sure how much value you'll get from the product unless there is a large installed user base. But I have my doubts about that.

Personally I don't think you'd get much value for your money. The software is old and doesn't take advantage of most OSX features. You are almost better off rethinking the language and getting someone who has developed parsers and compilers before. That way you'll have someone on staff who understand things and you can insure there is sufficient documentation for the future.

If they have a reasonable compiler and it is documented, then that probably is worth the money. It's too bad that OSX doesn't install the development tools standard otherwise you could simply have a Basic -> C and then use gcc in the background when compiling.

CheesePuff · Nov 23, 2002, 12:56 PM

The current owner is... well, if you buy it, you'll find out.

And, the code is horrible.

And, he said no way for $1,000, more like $5,000.

he bought it for about $11,000 a couple of years ago.

MacGorilla · Nov 24, 2002, 12:32 PM

I was thinking $5,000 and Open Sourcing it under some sort of BSD style license.

yeslekmc · Nov 24, 2002, 01:54 PM

My fear for you would be that this source would almost be useless as the basis for an OS X program. You'd probably be better off starting off from scratch rather than trying to fix someone else's legacy code that may be full of problems. (I've never seen the code, don't know if it's useful or not.)

Trust me on this... I've worked on my fair share of projects that were better off starting from a clean slate rather than attempting to fix what has already been accomplished. You waste a lot of time trying to figure out what the code is currently doing and then spending extra time trying to bend, mold and twist the code into accomplishing what you want it to actually do. Don't be suprised if you reach a point where you discover that the original code was just not designed and layed out to accomodate your needs and you end up starting fresh anyway.

MacGorilla · Nov 24, 2002, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by yeslekmc:
My fear for you would be that this source would almost be useless as the basis for an OS X program. You'd probably be better off starting off from scratch rather than trying to fix someone else's legacy code that may be full of problems. (I've never seen the code, don't know if it's useful or not.)

Trust me on this... I've worked on my fair share of projects that were better off starting from a clean slate rather than attempting to fix what has already been accomplished. You waste a lot of time trying to figure out what the code is currently doing and then spending extra time trying to bend, mold and twist the code into accomplishing what you want it to actually do. Don't be suprised if you reach a point where you discover that the original code was just not designed and layed out to accomodate your needs and you end up starting fresh anyway.

I thought it over and my gut tells me to stay away. Thanks all!

Angus_D · Nov 26, 2002, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by yeslekmc:
My fear for you would be that this source would almost be useless as the basis for an OS X program. You'd probably be better off starting off from scratch rather than trying to fix someone else's legacy code that may be full of problems. (I've never seen the code, don't know if it's useful or not.)

Not to mention, if it wasn't full of problems, why would he be selling it?

clarkgoble · Nov 26, 2002, 03:04 PM

Probably he no longer has the programmers. Sometimes code is developed and the system is poorly managed. You can frequently get good deals that way. Further sometimes the programmer retains rights and will resell it to others. (Frequently they'll even do a bit of customization for you - especially in this economy)

It sounds like this is abandonware that hasn't been maintained. Unfortunately it also sounds like it has relatively little value except for the compiler. But if that is poorly documented then it is easier to do things yourself.

Writing a simple compiler to a bytecode is easy with YACC. Even adding optimizations is that hard. A great introduction is still Kernighan's The Unix Programming Environment. While extremely dated it is still my favorite Unix manual. (It was written back before BASH or TCSH were conceived and when everyone was using VT-100 terminals or worse) There is an other good book on compiler design using YACC whose name escpaes me at the moment. However the Kernigham book is a nice step by step way to learn the basic idea. Then go over to Amazon and find an introductory compiler design book. THe Kernigham book is great though if you just want an interpreter for your Basic.

There is an object oriented YACC and LEX available on the net if you look. I use it quite a bit and it is very nice. The only trick is learning enough PPC code and the ins and outs of running it on OSX. However I suspect that you could write a "nub" that then calls your routines. So it wouldn't be a true app but would still be compiled. If you keep your GUI and other routines in a separate library you could then link to them with both your application and then compiled Basic apps.