[sidecar71]

Once again, a newbie wanna-be programmer here. As I've been exploring the developer field as a potential new career, I've learned of the trend of foreign out-sourcing and a general lowering of wages and demand for programmers/developers. Have a lot of you seen this trend first hand, and what are you doing about it?

I don't expect to make the $80,000 some were making in the mid-90s, but a friend of mine who graduated from Chubb's programming certificate program recently was just offered only $25000 (though it sounded like a local start-up)! Is it still going to be possible to make a decent wage 5-10 years from now in this field?

I also realize that the job market is horrible and that there is going to be a backlash against the high wages that were paid in the .com boom of a few years ago, but how much of this is cyclical, and how much is a long-term trend? (I also realize that I dont' have any numbers to back this up, but I am posting this to confirm or refute what I've been hearing.)

I don't mean to be a downer, but I'm afraid of having a few recent comments from people in field and articles I've read dampen the excitement I've had recently about this new (to me) field.

[NeXTLoop]

Sidecar, programming still is one of the best industries for a person to invest in. Although the current market and economy make for some challenges. In spite of that however, the bottom line is, programming isn't going anywhere. The need for programmers is only going to increase as the world becomes more and more dependent on technology.

The key for someone like you, who's just entering the field, is to develop skills that are in need. Focus on fields and languages that are in demand, and that will continue to be. Get good at what you do, and then let your skill speak for itself.

In addition, continuing in this path will also open up other posibilities as well. For example, once you refine your skills some, you may decide to develop a program/software package on you own. You may become familiar with the industry enough to perceive a need that could be met better than anything currently on the market, and with your skills, you may have the perfect solution on how to meet it. Many companies have been started that way: an individual with an innovative way of looking at a problem and coming up with a solution.

So go for it! I don't think you'll regret it.

[sidecar71]

NextLoop, thanks for the encouraging perspective. Maybe the lack of response otherwise are a testament to most people's lack of anxiety on this subject.

[Arkham_c]

The dotcom bust just meant that crappy programmers don't have jobs anymore. Good programmers are still in demand, and will always be in demand as long as there are computers.

Some of us are still working in the US making well over $80k/year doing programming. The trick is to keep your skills current, and to learn the stuff that gets you paid (java, C++, SQL, perl).

[macNullString]

The guys who replied to this thread have said very well about programmer as career. I totally agree with what you said. In the .com era, there were so many would-be programmers out there, probably including myself. It couldn't be helped because there were absolutely much less programmers than the number needed by the market at that time. Therefore, a lot of projects failed due to lack of experiences and failure of project management. And people who can't get a job for a long time in this economy means they didn't get out of their infancy as a programmer. I know some programmers who have much longer experience, but they don't know a **** about programming. A lot of people who did VB don't have OOP concept, therefore they write whole bunch of redundant code.

The point is if you are good, you will get paid well. I'm currently employed and getting paid $80,000 a year and Microsoft certified. That means I got out of my infancy and really forced myself to step up. I accomplished this after 4 years of industry experience.

I'm sure it will be a lot of struggle until you familialize yourself with programming principle and programming language itself, like But it will be rewarding for you.

I suggest that you imitate or steal good techniques from books, source online and stuff and you actually try to make it work. Even if you don't fully understand the code, just keep on going. You will gradually understand how things work.

Lastly, I would like to suggest that you learn Object Oriented Programming (OOP) very well. I mean, you don't have to try to cram yourself with this concept from the beginning because it's really hard to relate the concept with programming if you don't know how. But I find it very very important when it comes to software engineering. It really saves projects and your life!

Good luck on your journey...

[absmiths]

I don't know what Chubbs is, but I would start with a good solid certification from a big name like IBM, Apple, Sun, or even Microsoft. Those speak volumes.

And yes, foreign outsourcing is a huge market right now - both sending projects overseas and bringing H1 VISA workers over here. In both cases it comes down to cost. Americans tend to overvalue their skills and demand inflated salaries.

As for the "develop it and they will come" model, very very very few people have ever been able to recoup costs in this way (esp. as a novice), so I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

What can be useful is to write some software and provide it to your potential employers as a sample. I did this with an IDE I wrote and it was useful as a proof of skills.

[MHerberg]

Actually, I just graduated from an Ivy-League school and it's quite difficult to get a dream programming job with the current economy. If Bush is reelected, I wouldn't expect much to change. The elimination of the deficit is what made the mid-90s such a wonderful time to enter the computer industry as the markets and internet benefited through the quicker flow of currency and greater consumer capital.

If you are in college I would recommend you do an intership program with a company you could work for. I would also recommend getting a masters or even PhD in Computer Science if you want ASSURED job security and a great wage.

Now I agree with others that if you stick with programming it will be a good choice and you will get one of the better jobs our economy offers. I just warn you NOT to trust someone who entered the field 4 years ago, as that was a very different era. When I worked for G.E. Appliances they had just outsourced a lot of the department to India and this trend will continue for the next few years.

Value your education as that is the only way to ensure job security. Good luck.