[timmerk]

Dreamweaver is getting bloated, slower, and suckier with each release on OS X. I then tried GoLive, which has too many bugs to list.

Anything you guys recommend? Maybe some open source X11 app or something? Please don't say BBedit - I use a WYSIWYG editor for layout, then go in with BBedit to so other stuff already.

Thanks for any help!

[Yzma]

Hi,

You might want to check out the Composer that is built into the Mozilla browser. I haven't used it, but I imagine it is like the classic Netscape Composer which I did use way back when, and it wasn't bad. Plus it is free!

[:dragonflypro:]

posted by timmerk:
Dreamweaver is getting bloated, slower, and suckier with each release on OS X. I then tried GoLive, which has too many bugs to list.

Anything you guys recommend? Maybe some open source X11 app or something? Please don't say BBedit - I use a WYSIWYG editor for layout, then go in with BBedit to so other stuff already.

Thanks for any help!

Your second paragraph basically limits your options to what you have mentioned. GL or DW.

Honestly, DW is a great tool. I have just simply learned to ignore all the things in it I don't need. Further, I have programmed the shortcuts to make my stuff fly. For simple layout or HTMl tag works in fast fashion I am not sure there is a replacement.

DW is simply the tool as it is now.

MM has a big pile of stuff it is trying to do for a lot of different people. I enjoy the fact I can open and work with a clients CF pages and not have my editor tweaking out and then on the fly switch to a PHP or static HTML site adn not have to worry about behavioral nuances.

Big, yes... but considering the breadth of the web today... not that bad. It's easy to smack it around or complain about this or that feature…but viewed on the whole MX 2004 is not all bad.

T

[Theodour]

Originally posted by timmerk:
Dreamweaver is getting bloated, slower, and suckier with each release on OS X. I then tried GoLive, which has too many bugs to list.

Anything you guys recommend? Maybe some open source X11 app or something? Please don't say BBedit - I use a WYSIWYG editor for layout, then go in with BBedit to so other stuff already.

Thanks for any help!

There's Bluefish:
http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/features.html
I've installed it before on YDL, and I've seen in it Fink, but I've never really used it for anything. It looks pretty complete, but I don't know if it does any advanced visual layout.

[arcticmac]

you said not bbedit... how 'bout textedit? simpletext?

[NeXTLoop]

How about Freeway Express or Freeway Pro? MacDesign magazine has given the last two versions of Freeway Pro 5 out of 5 stars. I personally haven't used Freeway, but people who do use it swear by it. And the great thing is that it is a WYSIWYG program.

Here's a link to the site...

SoftPress

[clam2000]

If you've got time to get a full linux desktop running I'd recommend Quanta. The downside is that it needs KDE, which contains lots of stuff you don't need.

the webpage is http://quanta.sf.net

--will

[Twister]

I've used Taco HTML : http://www.tacosw.com/ and SubEthaEdit : http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/ They offer previews when you create but not like dreamweaver. I'm also looking for another editor.

[headbirth]

Give some these a try:

Tag
skEdit
Taco HTML Edit
HTMLEdit
HyperEdit
SEEdit 1.6.0
CSSEdit
SubEthaEdit

[timmerk]

Thanks, but I meant I need a WYSIWYG editor. I use BBedit to do stuff by hand.

Composer is too strange and laking for me. NVU is as well.

[philzilla]

dude, suck it up and use Dreamweaver or GoLive, like the rest of the world. you'll still be the same designer.

[timmerk]

That makes no sense. I was just asking if there was a better alternative. Why do you say suck it up? It's not like I was crying like a baby complaining there was none, and I refuse to use Dreamweaver.

[daimoni]

.

[timmerk]

I meant, I am not crying like a baby OR not refusing to use it. Sorry about how you read it.

[daimoni]

.

[Twister]

I'm still waiting for a good alternative.

[thePurpleGiant]

Originally posted by philzilla:
dude, suck it up and use Dreamweaver or GoLive, like the rest of the world. you'll still be the same designer.

How about Claris HomePage? A classic that is. Or even Word - I hear Word makes pretty good webpages without needing code

[timmerk]

"It's not like I was crying like a baby complaining there was none, and I refuse to use Dreamweaver"

Part 1 of what I was NOT doing: "I was crying like a baby complaining there was none" So, subtract that and you get:

"It's not like [processed part 1] and I refuse to use Dreamweaver"

"and" means bringing in another thing that I didn't do: "I refuse to use Dreamweaver"

remove "and" since there is no part 1 anymore, and you get: "It's not like I refuse to use Dreamweaver"

So there, it's how you read it. And what kind of nerd cares so much about how I write? Get a life man or answer the damn question. You trash clutter forums by bringing everything offtopic.

[timmerk]

thePurpleGiant: heh, sorry, doesn't fit my needs. Oh well, I will just continue to use Dreamweaver on Windows via VNC for now.

[MojoRising022]

Unfortunately there is no substitute for the power, expandability, and feature set found in Dreamweaver. I find Go Live to be extremely lacking.

I looked for something after MX 2004 was released b/c Dreamweaver was such a dog. It has gotten markedly better since with MM's .01 update. Maybe it is worth another look?

[headbirth]

As far as alternative WYSIWYG editors give Freeway a shot.

[Twister]

I've never seen freeway. I'm requesting a demo now.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Twister:
I've never seen freeway. I'm requesting a demo now.

Freeway Pro is excellent! I just purchased it. Works just like desk top publishing software. However, you won't be able to edit the html using a text editor. Actually, I believe you can, but then can't re-open your page in Freeway. You can add html code to your page using html boxes, if for instance, you wanted to add paypal buttons or something.

Freeway is very stable and has a very helpful and informative email discussion list called FreewayTalk which you can subscribe to at www.softpress.com in the support section. They can answer all of your questions.

[Twister]

I hated it. Sorry to say. It was to weird for me.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Twister:
I hated it. Sorry to say. It was to weird for me.

Unfortunately, at this point in the history of technology, it is going to be difficult to meet your desire. Hence you're forced to chose between two non-perfect choices.

1) Learn the different "DTP" way that Freeway does things and enjoy a very stable, almost bug free, Mac application w/ free email tech support, made by Mac people soley for Mac OS.

2) Stay with the familiar way that Dreamweaver and Go Live do things and adapt to the stability issues and bugs of being a semi-Mac after thought.

There's not a wrong choice involved, you simply have to decide what's best for you. As far as I know, for professional level needs, Freeway Pro, Dreamweaver, and Go Live are your only choices for WYSIWYG editors on the Mac

[headbirth]

Two other products you might want to try:

Create by Stone Studio

and

WebDesign

[Twister]

Links please. I know i can look them up but i you know them post em.

[Twister]

I'm gonna try WebDesign Thanks.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Twister:
I'm gonna try WebDesign Thanks.

Let us know how you like it. I guess it depends on what your needs are, but at $30, one would imagine that WebDesign is not as full featured as Freeway, GoLive and Dreamweaver. WebDesign is (I believe) a 3.1 MB download while, for instance, Freeway Pro is over 70 MB, has to be something missing. The lone review of WebDesign at MacUpdate likes the software, but says there are lots of stability issues. But at $30, the risk is small

[Super Glitcher]

If it sucks so bad then just export your crap from InDesign or Photoshop.

[headbirth]

Here's the link for Create:

http://www.stone.com/Create/Objects_Everywhere.html


the link for WebDesign:

http://www.ragesw.com/

[sambeau]

Ride bareback. Dump WYSIWYG altogether. I did and I never looked back.

(I feel like I'm confessing to some perversion).

Honestly, a bit of Fireworks, some CSS and a minimal set of XHTML tags is all you need these days.

[Twister]

I love the live previews and the ability to click on something in the preview then see the code highlighted. I don't usually design in WYSIWYG but i love it's feedback.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Starry Night:
1) Learn the different "DTP" way that Freeway does things and enjoy a very stable, almost bug free, Mac application w/ free email tech support, made by Mac people soley for Mac OS.

Actually a few people have had success with using Freeway to prototype, then doing hand-coding for the final thing.

[Turnpike]

I haven't used DW for a long time now... I've found that I can pretty much code a layout in my head... don't need to see it happen. Worst case scenario, make a doodle of it or make a static image in Photoshop or something so you can visualize. If you are actually creating the code using the visual mode of DW, you may spend more time cleaning up the code and making it exactly what you want than you would have just writing the code from scratch (counting the time you're messing with DW's WYSIWYG mode).

If the problem is you get tired of typing in repetitive tags ("oh gee... another text field...") you can either copy/paste or use something like BBEdit that has a list of tags to automatically format and insert.

Honestly, I just don't see the point of DW, especially if you are a professional of any sort. If you are a graphic design person and you can't do your own coding, maybe you should hire out for the coding. If you know the code but just have a hard time visualizing what it does as you type, use something with a preview function. Put the site in the server of your site and go click refresh if you want to see how something looks. Make an applescript to switch/refresh for you, and assign it a hotkey if you are worried about the time it takes to switch apps.

If for some other reason, you absolutely must have a WYSIWYG editor, you really don't have too many choices. DW, GL... I don't know what rendering engine they use. You could go the KDE route with Quanta... I believe it uses KHTML. No matter what though, you'll have to preview your sites in many, many browsers anyway (unless you are super-confident in your typing and coding skills... the fact you need a WYSIWYG suggests otherwise), so you might as well cut out the middleman.

What we really need is a program that teaches how to type code. I've gotten to the point that I can almost type code as fast as I type in a forum post, email, IM, et cetera... faster than I type a research paper, where I'm worried about every single word meaning exactly what I want it to mean. Code is much easier than English... fewer nuances . Still, I think there should just be a typing program that teaches you, instead of with common english words or words with a limited/specific set of letters, with things like div tags and blocks of CSS... better yet, "type the shortest regex that will match the following:" type things. Might speed everybody up enough to finally get away from the Internet.


Oh, and to he that posted about using Word... I think you were joking, but still... I hope you die.

[wataru]

I've played with Bluefish, Quanta, CSSEd, and more, but I've settled on SubEthaEdit. The only features I really need are smart indentation and syntax highlighting. The rest is fluff.

[m a d r a]

Originally posted by headbirth:
........you might want to try:

<insert name of any app> by Stone Studio

........

that's a joke, right?!