[driven]

Hi! New to mac OSX development. (Long time Windows developer.) What's the equivalent on OSX to ADO.NET? (If any such thing exists?)

[Angus_D]

EOF... *sniff*.

Basically, nothing really at the moment. Watch out for Core Data in Tiger, though.

[driven]

Thanks. I appreciate the response. Core Data ... any docs exist yet? (I'll check the Apple-site ...)

[Devin Lane]

No. Tiger is the next release of Mac OS X, due out in Q1 2005. Currently, only ACD Premium members are able to legally download this.

[driven]

I have Tiger. I just wasn't sure what to look for ....

the shove in the right direction helped.

[Kristoff]

JDBC, EJB, Hybernate.....

[TampaDeveloper]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
EOF... *sniff*.

Basically, nothing really at the moment. Watch out for Core Data in Tiger, though.

tytyty. Thats very good news! Now we just need ASP.NET equiv.


From http://www.ninthspace.org/blog/archi...l-things-apple


Core Data Framework

SQLite is optimized to provide fast access to database records and is designed for general-purpose use. One example is Core Data — a new Apple framework that simplifies application creation based on a Model-View-Controller architecture — that uses SQLite extensively to provide backend storage for user-defined data.

Core Data is intended for applications that have a significant amount of structured data to manage. According to sources, the library will handle developer tasks such as retrieving object data from disks, maintaining references to those objects, and writing modified objects back to disk.

The new Tiger-only Core Data framework will also provide developers with simplified management of undo and redo operations, support for validation of property values, support for propagating changes, grouping, filtering, and organizing data in memory and transferring those changes to the user interface through Cocoa bindings.

[Kristoff]

ASP.net?

Sigh....just use JSP, taglibs, and EJB in a proper MVC model 2 architecture.

[Angus_D]

Oh, and there's JDO too, if you're into the whole Java thing

[TampaDeveloper]

Originally posted by Kristoff:
ASP.net?

Sigh....just use JSP, taglibs, and EJB in a proper MVC model 2 architecture.

Sorry bud, I went from a JSP/Struts/EJB environment to an ASP.NET environment. I'm a big proponent of MVC, and CMM as well. I've worked in level 2 certified environments. There are issues with both, but the core of ASP.NET gives you stuff for free that you have to work for in the former. I won't be surprised one bit if you see concepts from ASP.NET leak back into JSP.

[Angus_D]

Then there's always WebObjects.

[TampaDeveloper]

Originally posted by TampaDeveloper:
Sorry bud, I went from a JSP/Struts/EJB environment to an ASP.NET environment. I'm a big proponent of MVC, and CMM as well. I've worked in level 2 certified environments. There are issues with both, but the core of ASP.NET gives you stuff for free that you have to work for in the former. I won't be surprised one bit if you see concepts from ASP.NET leak back into JSP.

Though I just said that, I will agree that the ASP.NET model is more subject to abuse by developers who don't understand MVC.

I've heard great things about WebObjects. I think I looked into it and it was to expensive to consider for side work, but I'm going to go look at it again right now!!!

[Kristoff]

Originally posted by TampaDeveloper:
Sorry bud, I went from a JSP/Struts/EJB environment to an ASP.NET environment. I'm a big proponent of MVC, and CMM as well. I've worked in level 2 certified environments. There are issues with both, but the core of ASP.NET gives you stuff for free that you have to work for in the former. I won't be surprised one bit if you see concepts from ASP.NET leak back into JSP.

We're CMM level 5 where I'm at, but I fail to see the relevance of that.

I stand by what I said. (struts sucks by the way).

[gralem]

Originally posted by driven:
I have Tiger. I just wasn't sure what to look for ....

the shove in the right direction helped.

Back to the topic...

After installing Tiger, install the development tools (xcode). You should then be able to pull up XCode and start a new project--I don't have Tiger at home right now (at work on a spare disk)--but there may be a new "core data application" project type. If not, just choose a new "Cocoa Application".

In either case, you should then be able to go to "Help -> Documentation" or "Help -> Show Release Notes". It should give you the best start you're going to find on Core Data before Tiger comes out.

Also, after installing DevTools, there may be something in /Developer/Examples/CoreData (probably not, if they haven't distributed examples of new technology yet).

Hope this helps. Sorry it's not more detailed. I was going to offer to give more detail after I had tiger up and running at work, but then I thought that this answer is more NDA-compliant.

---gralem

[driven]

Absolutely! Thank you very much. That's plenty of detail. I really appreciate it.)

[TampaDeveloper]

Originally posted by Kristoff:
We're CMM level 5 where I'm at, but I fail to see the relevance of that.

I've just noticed that environments that enforce CMM tend to share more of the technology and therefore have "better" solutions in any given area of development. So its a more technical way of saying "lots of people that know what they are talking about have come to a consensus."

So are you in the space industry? Is it Cognizant? I've never met anybody at level 5, since there's only around 50 companies in the entire country at that level. Is this company doing Mac dev or a PC dev? Have you found yourself to be more or less productive at level 5? Said another way, if you started your own company tomorrow, would you take that process with you or would you strip it down to a lower level?

Originally posted by Kristoff:I stand by what I said. (struts sucks by the way).

Do you have your own framework for facilitating a MVC design? I agree with you that struts seemed overly cumbersome for what it does, but that seems to be the direction of JSP. It can sometimes be difficult to convince a company to walk away from such a powerful industry standard. Why do you feel it sucks? Is there a new kid on the block as far as standards go? (The last Java project I worked on was refreshingly "do it however it works", so of course we threw out all the buzzwords and got to the business of making software.)

Sorry for all the questions, I just find it fascinating to get to talk to someone at level 5.

[Kristoff]

Originally posted by TampaDeveloper:


So are you in the space industry?

Close....defense.

Originally posted by TampaDeveloper:

Do you have your own framework for facilitating a MVC design?

Yes.

Originally posted by TampaDeveloper:

I agree with you that struts seemed overly cumbersome for what it does, but that seems to be the direction of JSP. It can sometimes be difficult to convince a company to walk away from such a powerful industry standard.

It is overly complicated. And, JSP api is powerful in the ways that it can be misused. Check out the J2EE Core Patterns book for a good explanation of how it should and shouldn't be used.

Originally posted by TampaDeveloper:

Why do you feel it sucks? Is there a new kid on the block as far as standards go?

It is overly complicated.
Proper use of existing APIs; jsp, taglibs, servlet, and EJB gets you all you need.

Originally posted by TampaDeveloper:

Sorry for all the questions, I just find it fascinating to get to talk to someone at level 5.

It's not that fascinating....really. And to answer your question about what I think about CMM....it's good until the point where things are done for the sake of process rather than for the sake of progress. Defense customers feel a warm fuzzy when they deal with level 5 companies. What that really buys them is open for debate.

[TampaDeveloper]

Originally posted by Kristoff:


[Struts] is overly complicated.


It's not that fascinating....really. And to answer your question about what I think about CMM....it's good until the point where things are done for the sake of process rather than for the sake of progress. Defense customers feel a warm fuzzy when they deal with level 5 companies. What that really buys them is open for debate.

That was kind of my thoughts on it too. The lower levels of CMM are very practical. The upper levels are for industries where "getting it right" are more important than "getting it out". Do you remember the classic X-Ray bug? People were occassionally getting mega-doses of X-Rays from a new machine. Nobody knew why and finally it killed someone and they started looking into it. The software was not deleting characters. So when the x-ray technician made a typo and entered 100 instead of 10, he would hit the backspace key and it would appear as 10 on the screen. But what the xray machine actually had was 100+[backspace key].

[Kristoff]

Originally posted by TampaDeveloper:
Do you remember the classic X-Ray bug?

No, but I'm familiar with the patriot missile bug