[Bozley]

He Guys I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get a program to run a Database on the web. It want to put around 10 000 things up to the web and I want it to be scalable from there. So I could go up to 20 000 then 30 000 and so fourth. Is there a program where I can create this that works with GoLive 6 or I can make work with GoLive 6.

Any Recommendations would be helpful
Thanks

[Bozley]

This is what I want to do right here:

What do I need
http://www.forsaleforrent.com/

Thanks for the Help

[thePurpleGiant]

MySQL is a free database, and is included with nearly every hosting account these days, and can be installed on your OS X machine. You will also need to learn a language like php to interface with it.

....Phil, I ain't got the link, but here's where you mention the book

[philzilla]

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
....Phil, I ain't got the link, but here's where you mention the book

*cough* did someone need a book?

[Bozley]

Thanks for the Post

But I don’t really want to get a book that means hours and hours of mucking around. I was actually looking for a piece of software.

[larkost]

Go find a contractor (programmer) to do what you want. You are probably not going to find a canned solution that fits. The closest that I have heard of is: EstateAgent.

[thePurpleGiant]

Originally posted by Bozley:
Thanks for the Post

But I don’t really want to get a book that means hours and hours of mucking around. I was actually looking for a piece of software.

MySQL is a piece of software, that will do exactly what you want. Problem is, you may have to learn how to use it.

I don't think you will find any pre-packaged software to do *exactly* what you want, with no learning curve, sorry to say.

[larkost]

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
MySQL is a piece of software, that will do exactly what you want. Problem is, you may have to learn how to use it.

I don't think you will find any pre-packaged software to do *exactly* what you want, with no learning curve, sorry to say.

MySQL is not a solution to his problem, it may be a part of a solution, but only one part, and the most replaceable part. I am getting really tired of people knee-jerking "MySQL" every-time someone mentions something about a database. MySQL is a nice SQL database (not even the best open source one), but it has no real front-end built into it (JDBC, ODBC and command line definitely do not count). This makes it unusable for non-programmers. You can't get any real work done with MySQL by itself, you have to put something else in front of it to do all the presentation and business logic... and that is 90% of the work.

MySQL will not do exactly what he wants... With quite a bit of work PHP could do what he wants and use MySQL as the database back end... but it is not MySQL doing most of the work, and it could just as easily be PostgeSQL, or SQLite, or MS SQL (*booo*), Oracle (better tools, but lots more expensive), Firebird (not the web browser), etc...

[thePurpleGiant]

Originally posted by larkost:
MySQL is not a solution to his problem, it may be a part of a solution, but only one part, and the most replaceable part. I am getting really tired of people knee-jerking "MySQL" every-time someone mentions something about a database. MySQL is a nice SQL database (not even the best open source one), but it has no real front-end built into it (JDBC, ODBC and command line definitely do not count). This makes it unusable for non-programmers. You can't get any real work done with MySQL by itself, you have to put something else in front of it to do all the presentation and business logic... and that is 90% of the work.

MySQL will not do exactly what he wants... With quite a bit of work PHP could do what he wants and use MySQL as the database back end... but it is not MySQL doing most of the work, and it could just as easily be PostgeSQL, or SQLite, or MS SQL (*booo*), Oracle (better tools, but lots more expensive), Firebird (not the web browser), etc...

Point taken, it would require PHP (or another language) to interface with it (as mentioned in first post), however PostgeSQL, SQLite or Oracle would be no different. It sounded like from his post that he was a farily basic user, so I suggested MySQL since it is readily available with nearly all hosts today. I also cannot personally think of a pre-packaged solution to be as flexible to do exactly what he wants without a bit of a learning curve.

What would you suggest he uses?

[registered_user]

Originally posted by larkost:
You can't get any real work done with MySQL by itself, you have to put something else in front of it to do all the presentation and business logic... and that is 90% of the work.

Clearly you've never formatted a date.

[larkost]

registered_user: Yes, clearly I have never formated a date in my persistence (database) layer... because that sort of thing belongs in the presentation layer (PHP for instance). I can't think of a valid reason to ever have a date or time in anything other than timestamp format in a database... it is simply a waste of effort and time, and can only cause problems.

[Simon Mundy]

Originally posted by larkost:
...it could just as easily be PostgeSQL, or SQLite, or MS SQL (*booo*), Oracle (better tools, but lots more expensive), Firebird (not the web browser), etc...

Indeed. But I wouldn't recommend any of these to a noobie programmer, as the level of support, peer advice and quality tutorials for MySQL is abundant and it's a good platform to get your feet wet with. Anyone who's seriously considering a more complex or larger-scale application will of course select a more appropriate platform for their needs (MS SQL and Oracle with more comprehensive support, Postgre with a more robust support of SQL, etc...)

Granted, none of these have an interface that's easy to use and setup for non-programmers. Filemaker has its niche here, although as pointed out in the other thread on the forums here, it's a dog for performance if you want to publish it on the web.

So ultimately, as PG pointed out, you're going to have to do some mods on an existing application, write your own app or commission a consultant to get you exactly what you want. It's very rare that an application exists to do EXACTLY what you want it to do, unless your needs are extremely generic.

BTW I think registered user was talking about formatting query results rather than storing data.

[larkost]

Originally posted by Simon Mundy:
BTW I think registered user was talking about formatting query results rather than storing data.

Even if he was... it is still the wrong layer to do the formating in... I am a huge fan of MVC, and if you follow that philosophy things are so much easier to expand on.

[nica]

If you need a database and don't want to spend the time learning SQL and the interface language then I suggest you hire someone that knows and can do the work for you.

Also look at Filemaker Pro their RDBMS is all GUI based but don't know if it will meet your requirements.

[registered_user]

:sigh: Humor is totally lost on some people. It's a shame, really, when a person's ego gets in the way of a good joke.

But since this is probably going to boil down a pissing contest, I'll play. Formatting a date culled from a MySQL database, performed in php, eg: $sql = "SELECT *,DATE_FORMAT(art_date, '%M %D, %Y %l:%i %p') FROM teh_dateformat_r0xx0rz"; is still entirely on the logical layer and leaves the database integrity in tact. That having been said, if this is going to be a pissing contest, I'd appreciate an explanation why or how this query contradicts MVC tenet.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by registered_user:
:sigh: Humor is totally lost on some people. It's a shame, really, when a person's ego gets in the way of a good joke.

agreed.

[larkost]

Originally posted by registered_user:
:sigh: Humor is totally lost on some people. It's a shame, really, when a person's ego gets in the way of a good joke.

Please... let me in on the joke... I don't get how putting a smily at the end of a post makes it a joke... If it was a joke, it definitely was not a good one, and came off insulting.

Originally posted by registered_user:
But since this is probably going to boil down a pissing contest, I'll play. Formatting a date culled from a MySQL database, performed in php, eg: $sql = "SELECT *,DATE_FORMAT(art_date, '%M %D, %Y %l:%i %p') FROM teh_dateformat_r0xx0rz"; is still entirely on the logical layer and leaves the database integrity in tact. That having been said, if this is going to be a pissing contest, I'd appreciate an explanation why or how this query contradicts MVC tenet.

This is pretty basic MVC, so we will start near the beginning.

MVC: Model-View-Content.. for actual usage it actually goes V-M-C

Content: the raw data... also called the persistence layer. This is where the actual data is stored, and should be in as raw a format as possible, as upper layers may have to show it to the user in many different ways, or do any sort of calculation on it, that C layer should never have to care about that. For example: dates should be in timestamp format, monetary values should be in a constant currency (for example, always dollars... this sometimes is impractical), you probably don't want html tags... etc... In one school of thought the C layer should have no logic in it at all: no foreign key constraints, no stored procedures. In the real world they are really nice things to have. In this thread this layer would be handled by MySQL.

Model: the "business logic". Where most of the action happens. Almost all of the "objects" in an application live here. In a store the items, shopping cart, etc.. are all in this layer. Most of the actions (like "add 10 of wigit A") are also on this layer. In many implementations this layer also gets to do much of the programatic fork for getting things into and out of the C layer (for example the SQL work). In order to allow for re-use of the "business objects" you don't want to format the data at all in this layer. In this thread PHP (for example) would handle both this and the V layer.

View: The presentation and interaction with the client. This layer should handle formatting the data (both incoming and outgoing) for the specific client, and do most of the incoming error/input checking (practicality often has this job shared with the M layer). It should not care where the data came from, or where it is going, and should handle most of the "statefull" situations.

Now that we have defined what MVC is... the reason you should not format your data in the C layer is because you might want to compare it to another data in the M layer, and doing that on a string representation is a waste of time. You might also want to adjust it for Eastern, or Japanese time in the V layer, which is purely a view function... the M and C layers should never know about that.

While this may sometimes seem easier to "just do it" in MySQL, when you get beyond a simple project you quickly run into big problems.

[ntt]

Originally posted by larkost:
MVC: Model-View-Content.. for actual usage it actually goes V-M-C

MVC = Model-View-Controller

[thePurpleGiant]

Oopsies, did I cause tension in the Web Dev forum?


Apologies to the original thread starter, I hope you got some idea of what is involved in what you want to do...

[Simon Mundy]

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
Apologies to the original thread starter, I hope you got some idea of what is involved in what you want to do...

Never mind that now... Where's my pitchfork and torch...

[registered_user]

Originally posted by larkost:
Please... let me in on the joke... I don't get how putting a smily at the end of a post makes it a joke... If it was a joke, it definitely was not a good one, and came off insulting.

....

The joke is that you said that you can't get any real work done with MySQL by itself. HA HA HA, I pointed out that you can format a date with it. Get it? It's funny because it's largely an insignificant feature but indeed MySQL does it all by itself.

Anyway, you didn't answer my question. You explained MVC a bit, but you didn't say what's wrong with that query up there. Why is using php to define a query, which happens to format the date in the SQL string, against MVC tenet? Clearly using a timestamp in the database is correct, so why it formatting the date in the query bad? NB: the date can also be adjusted for timezones in the query as well.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by Simon Mundy:
Never mind that now... Where's my pitchfork and torch...

i'm sure you can borrow some from Alf Stewart

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by registered_user:
Anyway, you didn't answer my question. You explained MVC a bit, but you didn't say what's wrong with that query up there. Why is using php to define a query, which happens to format the date in the SQL string, against MVC tenet? Clearly using a timestamp in the database is correct, so why it formatting the date in the query bad? NB: the date can also be adjusted for timezones in the query as well.

Basically you are combining your model with your view. If you wanted to take the complete piece of software (all 3 tiers) and convert it from a USA-only app to a UK app (where dates are formatted differently and color is colour), you should not have to touch your model or your controller, only your view. This is one of the benefits of MVC separation. In your example, you will have to alter your model (typically where queries are written) or your persistence layer if you have one.

[registered_user]

I see. What if, however, instead of taking the $sql I listed above and write it thusly:

Code:
 $sql = "SELECT *,DATE_FORMAT(art_date, '" . $dateformat . "') FROM teh_dateformat_r0xx0rz";

Where $dateformat is grabbed from a configuration file or table or whatever?

To solve that color issue, I could use:

Code:
str_replace("color", "colour",$foo);

for those who aren't paying attention, that second part (regarding color) is humor, and for consistency, I shall label it with a smilie: Please private message me if you need me to explain why that is funny.

[Simon Mundy]

Originally posted by registered_user:
I see. What if, however, instead of taking the $sql I listed above and write it thusly..

Still breaks the model if you're a purist.

However, I think it's cutting off your nose to spite your face to argue that these things belong purely in the View layer. There's no reason that the View layer can't simply pass a value as-is to the browser, especially if the Model passes that data with that purpose in mind. And for some tasks that may even be quicker. It's a choice that sometimes needs to be made despite those who would advise otherwise.

The advantage of a completely 'pure' MVC for an app is quite obvious - portability and code that is more readily understood by others. But for that you may sacrifice performance, something that's not always desirable. And potentially a lot of programming time just to achieve a relatively straight-forward outcome.

BTW, why are you trying to UK-ize that color? (sic)

[Bozley]

Hey guys calm down I think you are all good at programming or formatting a date or what ever you where talking about

Sorry I haven’t been on here being the original poster but I have been busy figuring out a solution of my own and I have a piece of software that will do it and best of all it is free.
I have ZERO experience working with PHP but I am good on computers and would say I am a medium to advanced skill level when it comes to web design. With Zero PHP experience I got a store running (I think that’s better then changing the date) with a mysql database as the backbone.

The software can be found here: http://www.oscommerce.com/
It’s a open source project and it’s a free download for Unix and Windows. I installed it on my server and I configured the rest of it all from a web browser.

It has everything I want this is what It can do.


_ Compatible with all PHP 4 versions
_ All features enabled by default for a complete out-of-the-box solution
_ Object oriented backend (MS3)
_ Completely multilingual with English, German, and Spanish provided by default
• Setup / Installation
_ Automatic web-browser based installation and upgrade procedure
• Design / Layout
_ Template struture implementation to:
_ allow layout changes to be adaptive, easy, and quickly to make (MS3)
_ allow easy integration into an existing site (MS3)
_ Support for dynamic images
• Administration / Backend Functionality
_ Supports unlimited products and categories
_ Products-to-categories structure
_ Categories-to-categories structure
_ Add/Edit/Remove categories, products, manufacturers, customers, and reviews
_ Support for physical (shippable) and virtual (downloadable) products
_ Administration area secured with a username and password defined during installation (MS3)
_ Contact customers directly via email or newsletters
_ Easily backup and restore the database
_ Print invoices and packaging lists from the order screen
_ Statistics for products and customers
_ Multilingual support
_ Multicurrency support
_ Automatically update currency exchange rates
_ Select what to display, and in what order, in the product listing page
_ Support for static and dynamic banners with full statistics
• Customer / Frontend Functionality
_ All orders stored in the database for fast and efficient retrieval
_ Customers can view their order history and order statuses
_ Customers can maintain their accounts
_ Addressbook for multiple shipping and billing addresses
_ Temporary shopping cart for guests and permanent shopping cart for customers
_ Fast and friendly quick search and advanced search features
_ Product reviews for an interactive shopping experience
_ Forseen checkout procedure
_ Secure transactions with SSL
_ Number of products in each category can be shown or hidden
_ Global and per-category bestseller lists
_ Display what other customers have ordered with the current product shown
_ Breadcrumb trail for easy site navigation
• Product Functionality
_ Dynamic product attributes relationship
_ HTML based product descriptions
_ Automated display of specials
_ Control if out of stock products can still be shown and are available for purchase
_ Customers can subscribe to products to receive related emails/newsletters
• Payment Functionality
_ Accept numerous offline payment processing (cheque, money orders, offline credit care processing, ..)
_ Accept numerous online payment processing (2CheckOut, PayPal, Authorize.net, iPayment, ..)
_ Disable certain payment services based on a zone basis
• Shipping Functionality
_ Weight, price, and destination based shipping modules
_ Real-time quotes available (UPS, USPS, FedEx, ..)
_ Free shipping based on amount and destination
_ Disable certain shipping services based on a zone basis
• Tax Functionality
_ Flexible tax implementation on a state and country basis
_ Set different tax rates for different products
_ Charge tax on shipping on a per shipping service basis

I found this site http://www.paintballxpress.com/ecart/ which is using the software. I noticed the oscommerce at the bottom, then looked up that and found there site downloaded the software found installation instructions on there website and what do you know I have a store!

Some of guys might want to use the same software. Way easier then buying a book…Way more economical then hiring someone.

Anyway I still need a php editor to change the main index page and was wondering if any of you guys know a good one for the mac.

Thanks so much guys
Boz

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by Bozley:
Anyway I still need a php editor to change the main index page and was wondering if any of you guys know a good one for the mac.

SubEthaEdit: http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/

or HyperEdit: http://www.tumultco.com/HyperEdit/