[loren s]

I mean really really. What makes everyone make a nice good clean css and proper cool web site ?

I have followed just about every hundred thousand tutorials to make the basis of a website, borders boxes images navigation and all that. But none of them seem to teach style and method. I see so many nice sites that I i want to say that I did it and I can do that, and I know I can but when in photoshop and htmlo everything for me seems to get lost.

Like in photoshop I can layout images and stuff so nice and clean but they will not translate well into real html. Like PNG images. And testing it out as real HTML like menus and a fluid layout system..

And in HTML just trying to get code to behave seems so headache filled.

Design... I can make neat images and try and use insperation form other sites but when trying to make it settel it just seems to look and flow like *dirt* ...

What gets everone else started and finished, links books ?

[Macola]

Money?

Seriously, though, you can design a great site, then show it to your client and they'll want something stupid. But you have to give them what they want, because they write the checks.

[mdc]

i make them because i find it fun. it is like drawing, some people do it just for fun. that is how i am with web design. i make new versions of my site all the time because i am bored, or just because i have a new idea.

kinda off topic. i just finished my latest one today. not _entirely_ finished, but i like it.
two versions, ie and non-ie. damn ie sorry, i had to vent, 3 hours later and ie kept messing with me.

[Synotic]

Originally posted by loren s:
What gets everone else started and finished, links books ?

Are you having trouble with mostly design or just translating it to code? If just code, then a good solid understanding of CSS makes everything a lot simpler. One of the tutorials/references that really opened everything up for me originally was the WestCiv tutorial. Although everyone has their favorites, I found it to be pretty good.

Have you been making websites before the whole XHTML/CSS "thing". E.g., table-based websites? I'll often help out web developers that have trouble thinking how to best approach a design using CSS; they'll often employ very table-like methods that break easily. Do you have an example of a design and perhaps an (X)HTML version of said design? Or just any examples of something you don't know how to best achieve?

[philzilla]

my old company slogan used to be: "we do it because we can, and you can't"

like anything in life, this is why some people get paid a hell of a lot to do something: because they're good at it. you can't teach someone talent.

[loren s]

ya thankyou for those sites. They are very nice tutes and ideas.

But What else s there ? Is it just constant layers of photoshop and editing ? Are there any design tutorials instead of code and more photoshop? I have barely ever seen design tutes. I know it will come by nature if it is there in you but still there can be tutes, like there are millions of python C C ++ Java and the likes, but only a coder can really ever use them, though they are still nice to read..

[Synotic]

Originally posted by loren s:
ya thankyou for those sites. They are very nice tutes and ideas.

But What else s there ? Is it just constant layers of photoshop and editing ? Are there any design tutorials instead of code and more photoshop? I have barely ever seen design tutes. I know it will come by nature if it is there in you but still there can be tutes, like there are millions of python C C ++ Java and the likes, but only a coder can really ever use them, though they are still nice to read..

I'm just confused on what' you're looking for exactly At first it seems like you can design your site well enough; you're just having trouble translating it to an actual site. But then it seems like you need help with the actual design. I won't quote the entire post and this may or may not help you, but here's (scroll down) a post I made a couple days that might apply.

[one09jason]

I think I know what you mean. I have been both a student and a teacher of web design for many years, and this is what I see: There are great functional sites that look like crap, and there are beautiful site that are disfunctional. Rarely are there sites that have both form and function. This is because people come at web building from two places. 1) Computer geeks who understand code and can make anything happen, but don't have any design training, artistry, or aesthetic sense. 2) Graphic designers and artists that come from the traditional print school (or other media) and have no idea how code their ideas onto the web. This is why, to me, web design is something of an oxymoron because it is VERY rare to find an individual that is a designer and an artist that is also profecient in all the technologies and quirks that go into making great web sites. This is also why you are having trouble finding tutorials and resourses on building sites with form and function - there are almost no athorities on the subject.

My advise, take some design classes if you are a coder. Take some coding classes if you are a designer. They will be well worth it.

Cheers

[genevish]

I have the book Web Site Design Goodies, which is very useful in my web design. Lots of real world examples (even color photos!) to back up the theories.