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dbaseiii · Feb 5, 2005, 12:51 PM

I just got wo 5.1 off ebay and i'm trying to load it on my imac thats running panther ( it installed just fine on windows )
the install application looks like it is installing the software
and completes but once it is done I can't find the program anywhere... I downloaded the patches off the adc but the patches
don't see the application either...

I bought this just to learn wo and I can use it on my wintel machine
but obviously would rather run it on my mac ( I paid so little for the software It won't be tragic if it is just not gonna work )

any help is appreciated..

Angus_D · Feb 5, 2005, 02:05 PM

The earliest version of WebObjects to support Panther is 5.2.2, I think.

kiskynet · 06:11 PM

You'll need to install the developer tools that come with OS X to use WO. After that you should find everything you need like Project Builder etc in /Developer/Applications.

dbaseiii · Feb 5, 2005, 07:16 PM

I had the dev tools installed so its not that... it was just that after the wo install the software doesn't seem to show anywhere, I tried rerunning the wo install and it sees the previous install and asks if I want to upgrade and I said yes but it still doesn't show up anywhere..

dbaseiii · Feb 5, 2005, 08:52 PM

is 5.2 going to work with tiger ? I got the 5.1 to learn wo and I intend on upgrading to tiger when it is released but now i'm concerned I would have to pay 700.00 every time there is an os upgrade... a real concern ?

Angus_D · Feb 6, 2005, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by dbaseiii:
is 5.2 going to work with tiger ? I got the 5.1 to learn wo and I intend on upgrading to tiger when it is released but now i'm concerned I would have to pay 700.00 every time there is an os upgrade... a real concern ?

No offence, but why do you intend on learning WebObjects? There isn't really any visible innovation going on there, Apple only just barely supports it as it is. Shrinking userbase, other technologies are surpassing it, etc.

kiskynet · Feb 6, 2005, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by dbaseiii:
I had the dev tools installed so its not that... it was just that after the wo install the software doesn't seem to show anywhere, I tried rerunning the wo install and it sees the previous install and asks if I want to upgrade and I said yes but it still doesn't show up anywhere..

Which software isn't there. You should be able to find Project Builder, EOModeller & WOBuilder in Developer/Applications with the developer tools installed. If you find Project Builder use that to create a new WebObjects project.

kiskynet · Feb 6, 2005, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Angus_D:
No offence, but why do you intend on learning WebObjects? There isn't really any visible innovation going on there, Apple only just barely supports it as it is. Shrinking userbase, other technologies are surpassing it, etc.

Disagree. For me WebObjects was a great place to start getting into Web Application development. Don't forget your going to pick up a bunch of skills like Java, Database modelling all stuff thats pretty transferable anyway.

More than anything I think WO is just a very mature product that does what it does incredibly well. All the innovation is their already, no need to keep reinvinting it and introducing new versions for the hell of it.

Whilst Apple is continuing to rely on it heavily for .Mac, Apple Store, iTMS etc.. it isn't about to disappear. It would be nice if more people were using it but theres a lot of bias out there in IT favouring stuff with an MS or IBM sticker on it. No matter how great your product theres not much you can do about this and so maybe it doesn't make sense to Apple to devote a huge amount of resources attempting to raise its visiblity.

The technologies its based on are thriving and here to stay my guess is Apple are pretty happy with it as it is and will continue to refine it with minor releases in line with the technologies underpinning it (Java).

Saying all that an update to WOBuilder to take advantage of WebCore would be nice.

dbaseiii · Feb 6, 2005, 11:04 AM

>>You should be able to find Project Builder, EOModeller & WOBuilder in Developer/>Applications with the developer tools installed

That is my problem , these programs do not show up there, xcode is there but none of the wo apps..

What little i've used wo I've come to like ( would probably like better if I could
get it going on my mac :- ) . anybody else think that I'm wasting my time ?

Angus_D · Feb 6, 2005, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by kiskynet:
Disagree. For me WebObjects was a great place to start getting into Web Application development. Don't forget your going to pick up a bunch of skills like Java, Database modelling all stuff thats pretty transferable anyway.

No more so than you could probably do with less expensive, more widely used technologies.

The WO userbase is very small, and dwindling. I know quite a few people who are getting out of the market because Apple is letting the tools languish (especially on non-Mac platforms).

Poor support from Apple, shrinking userbase... All bad signs.

kiskynet · Feb 6, 2005, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by dbaseiii:
>>You should be able to find Project Builder, EOModeller & WOBuilder in Developer/>Applications with the developer tools installed

That is my problem , these programs do not show up there, xcode is there but none of the wo apps..

What little i've used wo I've come to like ( would probably like better if I could
get it going on my mac :- ) . anybody else think that I'm wasting my time ?

Ok well thats strange from what I can remember they should just be there. I can't remember which installs EOModeller & WOBuilder if its WO or the developer tools but same difference if you've installed both they should be there.

Which disks did you get with WebObjects ? have you got both Developer & Deployment installs ? All I can think is that you've only installed the deployment stuff and missed the developer.

Last resort you can go to developer.apple.com and get the trial download of WebObjects and try it all again.

Angus_D · Feb 6, 2005, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by kiskynet:
Last resort you can go to developer.apple.com and get the trial download of WebObjects and try it all again.

I think you mean connect.apple.com

Chuckit · Feb 6, 2005, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Angus_D:
No more so than you could probably do with less expensive, more widely used technologies.

For instance, the very popular (if simultaneously kind of unloved) Java Struts from the Apache Foundation is free.

MadBrowser · Feb 6, 2005, 06:42 PM

Dude. Struts sucks. For each form page you have to have a Java class plus Actions, some XML bits, etc... It's WAY too much bloat. The only non-WO Java framework I would consider would be something like Spring+Hibernate. Even then, way too much XML nonsense.

I've moved my Las Vegas tourism site from PHP to Struts/EJB to WebObjects and I couldn't be happier with WO.

Much more productive. Less code. It's great.

Also, there is at least one very high profile app that uses WO...

It's called the iTunes Music Store... Perhaps you've heard of it?

Anyway, while the WO toolchain needs some love, the frameworks are great. They are very mature. That's why there isn't a lot of 'new features' - they have a ton of stuff for many years.

Apple isn't promoting WO but it is far from dead (iTMS, Apple online Store, several new in-house US Navy apps, etc..).

We just did a Web site for the rock band The Offspring using WO and it was much less expensive than our competition. Plus we came in on budget and on time, even with a changing scope.

I like the tools to be smart enough to get out of my way while I try to realize my vision.

Chuckit · Feb 6, 2005, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by MadBrowser:
Dude. Struts sucks. For each form page you have to have a Java class plus Actions, some XML bits, etc... It's WAY too much bloat. The only non-WO Java framework I would consider would be something like Spring+Hibernate. Even then, way too much XML nonsense.

Believe me, I know. That's why I pointed out that even though it's popular, it isn't well-liked by developers. I was just saying that from a financial standpoint, Struts is free and opens the door to a lot more jobs (since that's sort of the "in" technology right now).

kiskynet · Feb 7, 2005, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by Angus_D:
I think you mean connect.apple.com

thats the one...

hayesk · Feb 7, 2005, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by dbaseiii:
>>You should be able to find Project Builder, EOModeller & WOBuilder in Developer/>Applications with the developer tools installed

That is my problem , these programs do not show up there, xcode is there but none of the wo apps..

Is it built into XCode now? Go to New Project in XCode and see what it gives you.

Angus_D · Feb 7, 2005, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by hayesk:
Is it built into XCode now? Go to New Project in XCode and see what it gives you.

You'll need EOModeler and WOBuilder, but Project Builder has been replaced by Xcode.

Powerbook · Feb 16, 2005, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by dbaseiii:
>>You should be able to find Project Builder, EOModeller & WOBuilder in Developer/>Applications with the developer tools installed

That is my problem , these programs do not show up there, xcode is there but none of the wo apps..

Ha! I experienced the same - not with WO, but with the Mono_mod package for Apache... It installed a 100MB package, yet nowhere seem to be new files etc. The problem could be my bare OSX.3 system, I'm doing all the upgrades to X.3.8, let's see if that changes anything.

Regards
PB.

OpenStep · Feb 18, 2005, 01:01 PM

Searching google for "webobjects panther" gave me this article:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107649

Looks like you need 5.2.2 to run on Panther and install them in the correct order listed on Apple's site. I agree, if you're wanting to leran WebObjects just register at connect.apple.com as a free membership and download the 5.2.2 evaluation.

Powerbook · Feb 20, 2005, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by OpenStep:
Searching google for "webobjects panther" gave me this article:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107649

Looks like you need 5.2.2 to run on Panther and install them in the correct order listed on Apple's site. I agree, if you're wanting to leran WebObjects just register at connect.apple.com as a free membership and download the 5.2.2 evaluation.

Now that's pathetic!

What about us folks who _bought_ the 5.1 package??? WO5.1 stopped working 100% just after I went 10.1 -> 10.2. That's worse than Microsoft behaviour, I'd say.

PB.

OpenStep · Feb 21, 2005, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Powerbook:
Now that's pathetic!
What about us folks who _bought_ the 5.1 package??? WO5.1 stopped working 100% just after I went 10.1 -> 10.2. That's worse than Microsoft behaviour, I'd say.

PB.

I'm not totally sure about this but is it possible to download WO 5.2.2 from ADC and use your exsisting 5.1 key? I've never tried it but when you install 5.2.2 it won't isntall until you enter a valid key. Maybe the 5.1 key would work?

Angus_D · Feb 21, 2005, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by OpenStep:
I'm not totally sure about this but is it possible to download WO 5.2.2 from ADC and use your exsisting 5.1 key? I've never tried it but when you install 5.2.2 it won't isntall until you enter a valid key. Maybe the 5.1 key would work?

I believe 5.2 was a pay-for upgrade.