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t.hill · Apr 6, 2005, 12:21 PM

I'm sure this gets asked a lot, and I'm sorry. I don't want to waste a lot of time while at work searching for an answer. I didn't see anything on the first page that addresses this concern.

I hope you don't think that is arrogant of me.

There is Java, C++, C, Objective-C, Java ++ (or something), Cocoa, Applescript, and more to choose from. I need help deciding which language to learn, as I don't know much about any of them except for C++. And I'd prefer to have something that makes GUI (for my program) construction easy.

At this point I don't really care about compatibility with PC's, but someday in the future I might want to make these programs available to my coworkers who don't have Macs.

Also, these programming languages need to have built-in support for some high level calculations. Especially those involved with the calculation of gas supercompressibility factors.

PBG4 User · Apr 6, 2005, 12:50 PM

First off, yes it is arrogant to ask people to do your work for you, especially when you plan to use that effort to fuel your work and presumably, your profit margin.

Now, with that out of the way, you probably want to start working with Objective-C and Interface Builder if you want an easy way to build OS X programs.

If you want cross platform compatibility, you'd probably want to use Java. The problem with this is building a GUI is a bear because you have to code it by hand. You can try using the GUI builders in netbeans ( www.netbeans.org ) or Eclipse ( www.eclipse.org ) but nothing will be as flexible as coding the GUI yourself. Still, this could give you a starting point then you could tweak the code to taste.

A third alternative is to spend the cash and buy RealBASIC. This offers cross platform compatibility out of the box and I would presume easier GUI building since it's supposed to be VB-like.

I would go with either of the first two options if at all possible. Firstly, both Objective-C and Java are based on C syntax so they have commonalities in their looping & conditional branch syntax, switch statements and error handling commands. They both are object oriented, they just use a slightly different syntax for inter/intra-object communication.

As far as the need for high-level math, what exactly do you mean? If you expect a built-in function to do integration by parts, you're going to be bummed. But, if you can build your gas supercompressability formulas from basic math pieces (powers, trig functions, square root) then you'll be all set. If you need more powerful math abilities then you're looking at special standalone software like Wolfram's Mathematica ( www.wolfram.com ).

t.hill · Apr 6, 2005, 01:05 PM

I am sorry for being such a jerk, but thank you very much for your response. You answered a lot of my questions and even some that I didn't ask (but I probably would eventually). I really didn't expect to receive such a detailed response and I appreciate it very much. My main motivation for learning to program is as a hobbiest. However, if I can apply it to my work, that is a bonus.

The math functions I will use are more advanced than addition, mulitplication, etc... but not as complex as integration by parts, laPlace transforms, or any other calculus based methods.

Thanks again.

PBG4 User · Apr 6, 2005, 01:07 PM

No problem. You weren't being a jerk, I was just ribbing you.

Chuckit · Apr 6, 2005, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by t.hill:
The math functions I will use are more advanced than addition, mulitplication, etc... but not as complex as integration by parts, laPlace transforms, or any other calculus based methods.

All the languages mentioned here (and actually most languages in general) have functions for things like sines and logarithms, if that's the sort of thing you're thinking about. Don't know about gas compression, so I have no idea if that is or isn't going in the right direction.

t.hill · Apr 6, 2005, 01:18 PM

Well, we all need a good ribbing now and again.

And Chuck, I would love to be more specific, but I haven't actually looked at the formula's in a few months. I also don't have on hand a copy of my little textbook. But it is good to know that all the languages have support for those functions. It might not get any more complicated than simple sines, cosines, and powers.

Chuckit · Apr 6, 2005, 01:28 PM

Oh, exception: AppleScript's math support is piss-poor. AppleScript's strengths are scripting applications (obviously) and the fact that it's easy to understand because it looks very much like English. For most other purposes, it's pretty weak.

Arkham_c · Apr 7, 2005, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Chuckit:
Oh, exception: AppleScript's math support is piss-poor. AppleScript's strengths are scripting applications (obviously) and the fact that it's easy to understand because it looks very much like English. For most other purposes, it's pretty weak.

Applescript's performance with math is terrible too. It's not a viable contender.

I'd reiterate that Realbasic sounds right up this guy's alley. Objective C and Java are both 10x harder to learn, and developing GUIs with them is much, much harder. For a hobbyist, Realbasic is perfect. It offers decent performance, VERY short learning curves, and the easiest GUI development on the market (even easier than VB). Plus, your Mac program gets compiled for Windows with a few clicks.

Realbasic isn't the be-all-end-all tool for programmers, but it's a lot better than people give it credit for. I have worked in over a dozen languages (including C, C++, and Java) and I still come back to Realbasic when I need a quick GUI for something.

Wevah · Apr 7, 2005, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
Objective C and Java are both 10x harder to learn, and developing GUIs with them is much, much harder.

Interface Builder is hard?

f1000 · Apr 7, 2005, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by t.hill:
Also, these programming languages need to have built-in support for some high level calculations. Especially those involved with the calculation of gas supercompressibility factors.

Consider using Mathematica or LabView.

Samad · Apr 7, 2005, 05:43 PM

It seems like we get a "new to programming, help me right now" post every week or so. Is it too difficult to type "new to programming" in the search field? I'm surprised you guys tolerate these posts. The responses don't vary much in content.

zanyterp · Apr 7, 2005, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Samad:
It seems like we get a "new to programming, help me right now" post every week or so. Is it too difficult to type "new to programming" in the search field? I'm surprised you guys tolerate these posts. The responses don't vary much in content.

which guys would you be referring to? and probably because each is slightly different and maybe it is just the catch-all topic if one is not sure about how to start a thread about learning when they have a specific, vague question (oxymoron intended).

or, it could just be asking too much to do as you suggest.