[averron7]

Hi, I'm a college senior heading on to persue a Masters in Software Engineering next semester, and right now I'm working on a two semester software and hardware project. I'm working on some of the cutting edge stuff for the department, and a couple of the professors asked me to get involved with their senior project. The students in the senior project are providing the more mundane bits of the software.

The project is divided into GUI (Flash), logic (unknown), and data (MySQL). None of these require device interface.

Part of my job is to give requirements to the teams. One of these requirements was that the software is to run on both Windows PC's and the Mac.

Several of the students use and love Macs. However... someone, apparently, hates them. I was just made aware of this today, and, knowing most of the students personally, I can say that probably only two or three would have objections to the Mac.

The professors overseeing this project are listening to the extremely vocal student(s) who don't want anything to do with the Mac. They're pressuring me to drop the Mac requirement.

I actually bought them a 450MHz B&W (is running Tiger very nicely with upgraded HDD, RAM, and video) so that they could use it to test the software on. This seemed to make the professors more agitated. I guess it showed them I was serious about this "Apple thing".

The professors are great at what they do, but they havent kept up with the Mac, I think. I doub't they've used one since '98.

We've got Java 1.5 and Eclipse.
We've got Python.
We've got a UNIX-like interface to the devices.
We've got a top notch browser.
We've got Flash MX.
We've got MySQL and PostgreSQL.

Really, that should cover it.

What is it that Windows does in this case that someone thinks is so incredibly invaluable? I honestly just don't get it. I'm new to the scene though (first Mac was a PM G5), so maybe you guys can enlighten me.

I'm kinda pissed. I'm sick of people dismissing the Mac.

Comments? Discussion?


Edit: Just learned that one of the students is an official MS Rep. for our campus. *great*

[Chuckit]

Your requirement of cross-platform compatibility is a good one anyway. Developers should not be tied into one platform so much — it's very limiting and shortsighted. If they insist on not having to be compatible with a major platform, that's more reason to require it of them. See the Ten Commandments of C:

Thou shalt foreswear, renounce, and abjure the vile heresy which claimeth that "All the world's a VAX'', and have no commerce with the benighted heathens who cling to this barbarous belief, that the days of thy program may be long even though the days of thy current machine be short.

And to directly answer your question: There is no logical reason to snub the Mac. Ask them to either provide one or stop complaining, because your requirements are perfectly reasonable and they should be professional enough at this level not to get into such petty platform bickering.

[I was David B.]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

And to directly answer your question: There is no logical reason to snub the Mac. Ask them to either provide one or stop complaining...

No, don't ask them.
First make an analysis of who will be your target audience. If your target audience uses macs, the platform is not a discussion. And don't forget to think about the linux guys and get them into the boat.

If you are sure about the target audience, TELL them that your job is to make the requirements and these are your requirements, full stop. Don't discuss and never give the impression that this is a case of negotiations. It is never a question of like or love, but always about who will use and pay. A wrong decision here can make your project fail to be sold or (if its free) it will not find its users.

If your developer collegues don't know this, send them back to classes.

[outsourced]

Cross-platform development -- what a concept!
And one that's applicable in the real world.

If nobody likes your analysis, drop out of school and start your own business. Make sure you get your fellow classmate's names and addresses.

In a few years, send a "hello" note to those classmates and let them know how well your software company is doing. If any of them ask for employment, go ahead and hire them. Assign them to Mac-only projects.

Anyway, their bickering over platforms will get them nowhere in the real world.

You're one step ahead by considering multiple platforms in the first place!

[shunt]

Originally Posted by averron7

What is it that Windows does in this case that someone thinks is so incredibly invaluable?

It keeps alot of people in jobs...and their spouses in nice homes/cars, and their kids in braces and flying lessons.

I'll stop there.....

[I was David B.]

Ok, with more time...

Cross platform development is a good idea for the developers if it does not produce more work. It does not as long as you use java. But then the users have to download the virtual machine. Too complicated for most users.

Thats why I think the developers should think carefully about their audience. If there is a 98% os whatever audience, it might be useless to think about the other 2%.
But in any case I think it is smart to carefully select the used tools (libraries, databases) to have the freedom to move the code easily.

The social problem that you have is a different problem. In any group of people you will find a few who dominate everything. That are usually the ones who spend 95% of their time with socializing. And they always try to tell everybody what to do.

As someone who writes requirements YOU are the one to tell the others what to do. No one of your student collegues might be aware of this. They may still think the developers are the kings. That not true!

The requirements come from users and customers and they should be the result of a careful analysis. This is the information that rules! Developers find clever solutions how to make the implementation.

So if you have problems to push your requirements through, it maybe because thats your personality. You can only get out of this by doing good work and find the right requirements for your software. Don't forget that the others may be right. Windows has the largest market and macs have only a marginal share.

But you have a way to get people to support you. For example you can go to the professors and tell them OS X is used in science and it would be clever, as a university course, to develop cross platform. It might back you up, if your professors support your idea.

But you better find a team that does the port.

[capuchin]

Just plain refuse to drop the mac requirement. Dig in.

These guys asked you to come and work on the project in what appears to be a fairly senior position. Point out to them that building in mac support at this point will take a proportionally small amount of work, and having the end result work cross-platform is a pretty nice built-in advantage.

I'm no expert on development, but I know people. Stay calm and stick to your guns, and you'll be fine. Kicking you off the project for something so small would be fantastically stupid of them, and provided you stay enthusisatic about the overall project, they'll have no choice but to back down. And if they do kick you off, then you probably didn't want to be too involved with these guys anyway.

[Angus_D]

Originally Posted by I was David B.

Cross platform development is a good idea for the developers if it does not produce more work. It does not as long as you use java. But then the users have to download the virtual machine. Too complicated for most users.

This is not really true, and really depends on the app.

Thats why I think the developers should think carefully about their audience. If there is a 98% os whatever audience, it might be useless to think about the other 2%.
But in any case I think it is smart to carefully select the used tools (libraries, databases) to have the freedom to move the code easily.

Cross-platform code is often better written and more maintainable. You are forced to make fewer assumptions.

[CaptainHaddock]

Originally Posted by Angus_D

Cross-platform code is often better written and more maintainable. You are forced to make fewer assumptions.

Indeed. I hate to use Microsoft for a positive example but when they set out to build Windows NT, the outside engineer they hired to lead the project refused to let the programmers develop it on x86. They had to develop good code on another platform (I forget which), and then port it to x86 and the other CPUs that NT would be compiled for. The result was possibly the only stable OS to come out of Microsoft.