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iomatic · Dec 21, 2005, 01:59 PM

I haven't used GoLive since it was called CyberStudio, and owned by GoLive. It was cool at the time, but then I noticed all the bloated code (hey, it's not that MM_code ain't pretty either, but at least you can move it to an external file and DW will be smart enough to reuse it with other files), and had to switch.

What's the difference nowadays? Sounds like the whole drag-to-a-site-to-link-an-object thing seems tedious? Is it better? I love having DW assist me in my hand-coding (except that it pops up the CSS sheet you have to then save as well (?)). Can GoLive be better?

Another question: didn't DW have a file browser you could drag stuff to a connected remote site? Like Transmit? What happened to that? It seems like a limited local file browser now.

Thanks.

jlincoln · Dec 21, 2005, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by iomatic

I haven't used GoLive since it was called CyberStudio, and owned by GoLive. It was cool at the time, but then I noticed all the bloated code (hey, it's not that MM_code ain't pretty either, but at least you can move it to an external file and DW will be smart enough to reuse it with other files), and had to switch.

What's the difference nowadays? Sounds like the whole drag-to-a-site-to-link-an-object thing seems tedious? Is it better? I love having DW assist me in my hand-coding (except that it pops up the CSS sheet you have to then save as well (?)). Can GoLive be better?

Another question: didn't DW have a file browser you could drag stuff to a connected remote site? Like Transmit? What happened to that? It seems like a limited local file browser now.

Thanks.

I've used both, but am no expert. I found the differences to be minimal, as I'm used to creating "good looking" sites that don't rely too greatly on behind the scenes functionality. I started with GoLive as I was used to Adobe's interface, but prefer Dreamwearver now that I've become more familiar with it. Plus, it integrates with Flash so well, duh on that one I guess, but the convenience is nice.

I also prefer the Get and Put of DW. I think this is what you're talking about in your last paragraph. GoLive has a nice split view setup that allowd drag and drop vs. DW's highlight item and press "put" button. In the latest DW, there should be a little drop down menu that let's you toggle between local, remote and testing.

Since Adobe gobbled up Macromedia, my guess is that the next itteration is going to be Dreamweaver with Adobe's "palatte" interface, which they sued Macromedia over this a few years ago.

I'm under the imperssion from other web design folks that Dreamweaver is the superior product, though I'm sure as many who'd agree with this would disagree.

There, those are my ramblings.

JL

iomatic · Dec 21, 2005, 07:07 PM

I meant, you could browse your local files and use that in one pane while looking/drag-copying into the other remote pane. Not anymore.

Personally, I'd love if Dreamweaver and Flash got a makeover. A fast one, at that. The Adobe interface is hard to beat. Still inconsistent, but tough to better.

???

tomrock · Dec 22, 2005, 08:26 AM

It's seems to me that GoLive is more oriented towards site management and Dreamweaver is more towards editing individual files.

That's not to say that GL doesn't edit files, it just seems to be their strengths are different.

maccrazy · Dec 26, 2005, 03:50 AM

Ignoring the code created by each application, I personally find GoLive's interface to be far better than Dreamweaver's. It comes down to personal taste but my vote would definitely be for GoLive.

godzookie2k · Dec 28, 2005, 09:43 AM

I use DW all day and love it, but golive has some interesting *design* features like smart objects which are intruiging. I think golive is more geared towards designers while dw is more for the programmers.

geraldartman · Dec 30, 2005, 06:20 AM

Its all in the issue of Dynamics!

GL6 had a great dynamic (IE: database) library and interface to it. GL-CS+ dropped it completely.

DW4 had a library and didn't work well with OSX. MX and 8 have good libraries and interfaces that work. You can buy impAKT for much better services.

If you plan to do anything with serious dynamic data requirements, then DW is your only real choice for rapid development unless you can get GL6 which still IMHO has better libraries.

36days · Dec 30, 2005, 03:43 PM

Is it just me or is there a resurgence of people hand coding again?

godzookie2k · Dec 30, 2005, 03:45 PM

a resurgence? when did it stop? just because someone uses dreamweaver doesn't mean that its not in code view 24/7.

besson3c · Dec 30, 2005, 04:54 PM

I don't understand why people who are using Dreamweaver in code view don't save some money and pick up a kick ass text editor, such as BBEdit.

Don't understand the point of using Dreamweaver if you are just using it in code view.

PDX Chris · Dec 31, 2005, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I don't understand why people who are using Dreamweaver in code view don't save some money and pick up a kick ass text editor, such as BBEdit.

Don't understand the point of using Dreamweaver if you are just using it in code view.

I use NVU (free, open source) which has some of the functionality of DW. Works pretty good too!

hollowflame · Dec 31, 2005, 05:59 PM

I have only used Dreamweaver, and love it. I have a friend who has tried both, and prefers Dreamweaver.

besson3c · Dec 31, 2005, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by PDX Chris

I use NVU (free, open source) which has some of the functionality of DW. Works pretty good too!

Just checked this out, it looks great! Its built in page rendering uses Gecko, which is far nicer than the built-in rinky dink browsers included in Dreamweaver or GoLive. You guys should check this out.

I think too often, people pass up open source options out of lack of awareness of their existence. Anymore, you can setup a quite efficient shop without dipping into your pocketbook. If the version of BBEdit I'm using stops working or starts to suck, I'll probably switch to NVU.

PDX Chris · Jan 1, 2006, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Just checked this out, it looks great! Its built in page rendering uses Gecko, which is far nicer than the built-in rinky dink browsers included in Dreamweaver or GoLive. You guys should check this out.

I think too often, people pass up open source options out of lack of awareness of their existence. Anymore, you can setup a quite efficient shop without dipping into your pocketbook. If the version of BBEdit I'm using stops working or starts to suck, I'll probably switch to NVU.

Yep, I literally just found NVU about 2 months ago when Dreamweaver's performance was pissing me off. I needed something that worked "good enough" as Dreamweaver without all the extra crap. Works well for me so far, since every once in a while I'll forget simple syntaxes (like img links, or anchors). It's easy to hand code everything else and then get stumped on something stupid like that.

himself · Jan 2, 2006, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I don't understand why people who are using Dreamweaver in code view don't save some money and pick up a kick ass text editor, such as BBEdit.

Don't understand the point of using Dreamweaver if you are just using it in code view.

The only feature that really keeps me using Dreamweaver is the database connectivity. I set up my Mac as the testing server, so it connects with the MySql server when I'm not ready to test them on a remote server. It shows me all of the available records and I can add/alter them in my code whenever necessary. Also, since I don't consider myself a bona-fide "programmer", it makes adding PHP/MySQL functionality fairly easy. So, I usually do most of my coding in code view, and I can see the live results in design view, and I can make any adjustments I need to before testing in a real browser.

The site management aspect is a big time saver too. I don't have to go digging through mulitple pages to update altered links and other changes; I also like being able to preview any PHP or other include files and MySQL datasets live in design view.

If it weren't for that, I'd leave DW in a heartbeat. The design mode preview is horrible (though it closely resembles the typical IE Win rendering), and overall performance is infuriating, especially when you have multiple documents with database interactions open. DW's page template system often works really well, but there are a couple of annoying bugs that pop up if you add a lot of commenting to your HTML/XHTML and PHP that causes DW to get confused on what areas of a page are editable or not. Plus, the interface is sad. I've been investigating GoLive to see if it can at least offer similar database connectivity. If so, I'm going to jump ship. I'm going to give NVU a shot too.

godzookie2k · Jan 2, 2006, 09:27 PM

why use dreamweaver? Simple. DB connectivity, code hinting, site management, and the ability to switch to preview mode when I want. (I personally like seeing tables visually for some odd reason), not to mention I've just gotten very used to the interface. I still use bbedit alot, usually if I'm whipping out something quick, but DW for anything major, mainly for the first few reasons.

besson3c · Jan 2, 2006, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by himself

The only feature that really keeps me using Dreamweaver is the database connectivity. I set up my Mac as the testing server, so it connects with the MySql server when I'm not ready to test them on a remote server. It shows me all of the available records and I can add/alter them in my code whenever necessary. Also, since I don't consider myself a bona-fide "programmer", it makes adding PHP/MySQL functionality fairly easy. So, I usually do most of my coding in code view, and I can see the live results in design view, and I can make any adjustments I need to before testing in a real browser.

The site management aspect is a big time saver too. I don't have to go digging through mulitple pages to update altered links and other changes; I also like being able to preview any PHP or other include files and MySQL datasets live in design view.

If it weren't for that, I'd leave DW in a heartbeat. The design mode preview is horrible (though it closely resembles the typical IE Win rendering), and overall performance is infuriating, especially when you have multiple documents with database interactions open. DW's page template system often works really well, but there are a couple of annoying bugs that pop up if you add a lot of commenting to your HTML/XHTML and PHP that causes DW to get confused on what areas of a page are editable or not. Plus, the interface is sad. I've been investigating GoLive to see if it can at least offer similar database connectivity. If so, I'm going to jump ship. I'm going to give NVU a shot too.

You have a Unix machine, why not just setup a MySQL database on localhost? It's great for testing, much faster, and allows you to work remotely without being connected to the net (connecting locally is also more secure than connecting to a MySQL server located remotely).

himself · Jan 3, 2006, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

You have a Unix machine, why not just setup a MySQL database on localhost? It's great for testing, much faster, and allows you to work remotely without being connected to the net (connecting locally is also more secure than connecting to a MySQL server located remotely).

That's exactly what I do.

iomatic · Jan 11, 2006, 04:05 PM

I can set up a database using phpmyadmin, but how do you move the databases back and forth or sync them with a server? Any GUI-type applications?

danke.

besson3c · Jan 11, 2006, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by iomatic

I can set up a database using phpmyadmin, but how do you move the databases back and forth or sync them with a server? Any GUI-type applications?

danke.

You can use phpmyadmin to do a mysqldump of all data, and phpmyadmin on the other end to reimport this data. Anything you can do via phpMyAdmin you can also do via the MySQL command line, in case you want to script/automate this task.

You can also transfer the files at the file level, simply by moving all of the files located in your MySQL database directory. You can use a Unix command such as "rsync" to sync data between two machines over SSH.

MartyR · Jan 16, 2006, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by maccrazy

Ignoring the code created by each application, I personally find GoLive's interface to be far better than Dreamweaver's. It comes down to personal taste but my vote would definitely be for GoLive.

Has anyone tried GoLive on the new Intel iMac yet? I am hooked on GoLive and don't want to upgrade my computer until I know I can run GoLive better than it runs now. Anyone tried it or heard about it? right now I have version CS, but would upgrade to CS2 if necessary.

godzookie2k · Jan 17, 2006, 07:02 AM

Well I'm relatively (I don't use GL) sure CS2 will probably "run better" in the "do more stuff" way than CS. However none of the adobe apps have been updated for the intel stuff yet, so it will no doubt run on that system, comprably to a relatively new mac. I don't know if adobe's updates will be free or not though.