[Obi Wan's Ghost]

http://www.thinkvitamin.com/features...op-css-hacking

[Millennium]

It's not that they aren't allowing CSS hacks; it's that they're fixing the bugs which made the hacks possible. Since when is this a bad thing?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Millennium

It's not that they aren't allowing CSS hacks; it's that they're fixing the bugs which made the hacks possible. Since when is this a bad thing?

They way I see it by the time Vista and IE7 are out the rest of the browser market including Safari and FF will be already supporting CSS3 and MS will as usual be late to the game but still have a large user base. It is early to tell but if MS is late to the game again not being able to use conditional comments or hacks in IE7 will hold CSS3 back.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Millennium

It's not that they aren't allowing CSS hacks; it's that they're fixing the bugs which made the hacks possible. Since when is this a bad thing?

Going forward its great, going back it sucks. The problem I have is not wanted to have two stylesheets to support for one page, like they suggest in their example. I work with several sheets that are over 1300 lines each across a site of thousands of pages. Their suggestion doubles my load and testing. So yes its a bad thing, more so a pain. These so called 'hacks' allowed you to at least add IE only stuff to the same page making things a LOT easier to manage an already screwed up browser. If anything they need to just make the damn thing complaint. ALL browsers should render correctly so that there isn't even a such thing as a 'hack'.

One code... any browser...

Dealing with Microsoft that will never happen, but thats the issue in a nut shell. Oh well...

[Exizl del Fuego]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

The problem I have is not wanted to have two stylesheets to support for one page, like they suggest in their example. I work with several sheets that are over 1300 lines each across a site of thousands of pages. Their suggestion doubles my load and testing. .

I've never dealt with stylesheets of that magnitude so forgive any ignorance on my end, but can't you make CSS's stylesheet inheritance work for you here? As in you have your standards-compliant master stylesheet,that works for everything plus IE, then you have an IE-specific stylesheet (wrapped in the IE conditional comment thing) that targets only the elements which IE messes up and give them IE-specific rules? Instead of branching the CSS which it seems you're thinking of, it'd be sorta like laying a transparency (style)sheet over the normal W3C stylesheet to address any IE quirks.

Sure it's a bit more work (coding for IE always will be), but it'd hardly be DOUBLE the work.

[registered_user]

Googling for IE7 CSS Hacks reveals plenty of options.

You're a fool if you ever believe Microsoft when it calls something hack proof.

btw, screw IE. the only IE specific concession you should make on your site is this:
* html { display: none; }

(thanks to Miles for that one)

[LiquidGuy]

btw, screw IE. the only IE specific concession you should make on your site is this:
* html { display: none; }

Which will be fixed in IE7. Thus the need for seperate stylesheets.

These so called 'hacks' allowed you to at least add IE only stuff to the same page making things a LOT easier to manage an already screwed up browser. If anything they need to just make the damn thing complaint.

Have you tried the IE7 Beta? It's vastly improved, and has support for nearly the entire 2.1 spec. Yes, they took their sweet time to do it, but they've really listened to our cries. IE7 will support/fix everything(?) you needed those hacks for.

[registered_user]

:whoosh: is the sound of something going over your head. It was a joke.

Separate style sheets? Oh, great idea! You can use javascript to sniff the browser! Brilliant I even found a future-proof browser sniffer online from 1997!

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

It's the CSS3 support I mentioned that is worrying. I'm willing to bet MS will play catch up again.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Exizl del Fuego

I've never dealt with stylesheets of that magnitude so forgive any ignorance on my end, but can't you make CSS's stylesheet inheritance work for you here? As in you have your standards-compliant master stylesheet,that works for everything plus IE, then you have an IE-specific stylesheet (wrapped in the IE conditional comment thing) that targets only the elements which IE messes up and give them IE-specific rules? Instead of branching the CSS which it seems you're thinking of, it'd be sorta like laying a transparency (style)sheet over the normal W3C stylesheet to address any IE quirks.

Sure it's a bit more work (coding for IE always will be), but it'd hardly be DOUBLE the work.

If I were dealing with 'static' pages it would be a lot easier. Since I deal with a lot of dynamic content with a ton of Perl and JavaScript's smashing into a page with about 3-4 sheets per page it gets more complex. Also at times our clients branding stylesheets and templates are so screwed up they kill a lot of stuff and I will have to rebuild it just so I can read the code. I dont have access to a lot of the backend commerce pages to make consisent changes or cleanout the layout of tables/divs/ and spans. Plus we have some special cases in the middle of all this that have unique styles and templates so going back and forth testing and trying to go forward at the same time is a LOT of work. DOUBLE is about right as its a lot of backend render stuff that will get clobbered and has to be tested that is dynamic scripting.

I wish they would have just let these darn IE conditionals could be added to the stylesheet.

Would be REAL nice if it was against the law to make a browser than wasn't W3C compliant.