[ethorteran]

After talking to my parents about making money off of shareware, I realized that it is a pain in the butt. I would like to start a group, that is a bunch of programmers, clinging together to get:

• A Decent Website
• Name recognition
• Credit card capability

These things are hard to get when one is alone. The entire group would share a name, and users could participate in a "group-wide" project that would be too hard for one person to do alone. Then the profits would be split. The conglomerate would need to take some of the money to keep the website up, for yearly credit card fees, taxes, etc, etc, etc. This would be a very small percentage, and is less than would be to support it yourself. If it gets big enough, then there could be services like advertising, and CD/DVD-printing I just want to test the waters, before I spend months getting this thing together . Thanks in advance,

Erik

[honeydew]

Interesting.

Personally, if/when I release Mac OS X software it will be open source. Seriously. There seems to be a huge programmer interest in Cocoa and Mac OS X, and I want to help fuel that fire. More available code will strengthen the platform.

I don't think it's possible to make a living off of shareware fees. And while a little extra money would be nice, I think open source is the way to go. I'm sure both developers and users would appreciate it.

$0.02


BTW, does Ambrosia follow this "conglomerate" model? Or are they a full-fledged company?

[ethorteran]

I believe ambrosia is not a conglomerate, but I cannot be sure. Also, I know you can't live off of shareware fees, but as you said, I am short on cash. All these cool upgrades, so little money... However, one of the main points that I have for this conglomerate, is that all the users in it have free access to the source that everyone else wrote. I just wish there were one already, then I wouldn't have to get this all together, and I wouldn't have to bother with all of these fiddly bits around shareware.

[honeydew]

Well I'll agree with you on one point: we need a decent Mac OS X website. Most of the X sites out there are just plain ugly. Please, no more Slashcode! Blech.

[IamBob]

Couldn't "the conglomerate" work on object-ware and distribute that with source? That would keep a large portion of the code free. You could still work on closed source applications to fund the group. If nothing else you could vote on a per project basis to decide if it'll be open or closed source.

Sounds like it could be a fun thing to do anyway.

[honeydew]

IamBob, that sounds like a good compromise.

[IamBob]

I'm glad you like my solution.

So where do we sign up and where do we begin?

[These boards aren't agreeing with me this morning. Need more coffee!]

[ 06-06-2001: Message edited by: IamBob ]

[ethorteran]

Sorry to get you hopes up, but it is not yet existent. However if we work together it can become existent. Someone needs to find a cheap web host-er first. Then we go from there.

[IamBob]

I figured it would take some work to get going, actually.

So, this may sound crazy, but, what about a sourceforge project? Could we setup a project dedicated to starting this group?

Other ideas?

[tom_waters]

Originally posted by ethorteran:
<STRONG>Sorry to get you hopes up, but it is not yet existent. However if we work together it can become existent. Someone needs to find a cheap web host-er first. Then we go from there.</STRONG>

I use 1dollarhosting.com and have been happy with it. It is of course, not really one dollar, because you have to buy a domain name... but for under $100 to start, then a small amount per year, it works pretty well.

I would consider joining such a collective. I would think of it as a "guild" as in the old craftsman days.

[ethorteran]

Actually a guild is the sort of thing I was thinking of. So now that we know who can host it, we need a name, domain name etc. And then some details like only OSX, or get people from all platforms?

[ethorteran]

I checked out "guild" "theguild" and "programmersguild" .com, .org, .net. All of which are taken, so I checked out programmersguild and it seemed pretty wimpy. The real purpose that I see for this one is that if you spread out the cost (for CD printing, distribution, web hosting, name recognition) over many people, each pays less. So, we need a sort of company name, like ThunderBird Software, or something like that, that looks like a company, acts like a company, but really is a guild of programmers. That way it looks better to be buying/downloading "ThunderBird Software's UltimaGraphics" (or whatever) as opposed to "The Programmer's Guild Presents UltimaGraphics". I like the first better.

[Millennium]

It is actually possible to live off of shareware fees. It's extremely difficult, however. Very, very few programmers manage to do it. The only one I know off the top of my head is the guy who wrote Anarchie (now Interarchy). But he was damn good, and he had a lot of stuff out there. And it took him years before he was making enough off of shareware to actually live on the fees. I don't think he does this anymore, though. Even in the Windows world, where the userbase is potentially much higher, you don't see people living off of shareware in all but the most extreme cases.

Anyway, like I said, it's just not really possible to live off of shareware fees in today's environment. That's why I'm going to be Open-Sourcing my work also, when I actually get something that I feel comfortable releasing. I don't need the extra money, and I see no point to keeping everything secret anyway. I'll probably set up a PayPal account for anyone who really wants to donate, but I certainly wouldn't make it a requirement.

[ethorteran]

I am not saying that one would live off of shareware fees. I'm just a teenager, and don't need to. However, it is a way to make money! And as such it looks like a good deal to me. People want my software, and they buy it, they're happy, I'm happy. The world is happy, cool!

[honeydew]

I don't think the domain name and hosting is a top priority. After all, what do we have to offer to the public at this point? A better idea would be to start a discussion forum/mailing list so that we can get our ideas out on the table. Yahoo! provides a good service for free at http://groups.yahoo.com/ .

Topics we could discuss:

• Goals, "mission statement"
• Setting up a CVS repository
• Ideas for a small first project
• Decide on a name for our 'guild'

Once our first project is underway, then we can worry about hosting and creating a web site. After the project is released, probably as open source, we can start gauging public interest and perhaps recruit more developers.

Thoughts?

ethorteran, do you want to take the responsibility of leading the guild? Perhaps we could all exchange IM names and organize an online meeting.

[IamBob]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

[honeydew]

I've created a discussion forum and mailing list for our guild. Please contact me via email if you are interested in joining.

Thanks