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andypolack · Feb 10, 2001, 07:35 PM

Will SuperCard work in OSX? Can I develop games on OS 9 for OSX through SC/SE?

parallax · Feb 11, 2001, 06:18 AM

Use Cocoa :-)

With InterfaceBuilder, it's just that easy. (Plus, it's completely free)

dogzilla · Feb 11, 2001, 08:09 PM

Are you saying that cocoa is as easy to develop with as SuperCard? And where can I get a good reference book for InterfaceBuilder and/or Cocoa

parallax · Feb 12, 2001, 10:16 AM

Probably easier. I've never used SC, only HC.

A good resource to get started *would* be my OpenGL tutorial at my website, if I'd ever finish it (hopefully soon).

Otherwise, Vermont Recipes. Although it's long and painful, it covers a lot of key points. After you're able to develop one thing or two, read Apple's docs.

dogzilla · Feb 14, 2001, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by parallax:
Otherwise, Vermont Recipes. Although it's long and painful, it covers a lot of key points. After you're able to develop one thing or two, read Apple's docs.

Just DLed Vermont Recipes in PDF. I'll let you know if it's easier than SuperCard. And I look forward to seieng your OpenGL tutorial.

dogzilla · Feb 14, 2001, 10:07 PM

Well, Parallax - I've gone through and tried to attack the first recipe. Now, I suspect that things might be a bit easier if I spent some quality time with Apple's Objective-C docs. But here's the bottom line: there is no way that the current developer tools can be called anything like as easy to use or intuitive as SuperCard.

Now, I understand that there's a lot of new stuff there, and a lot of power, and Obj-C is a whole new language/approach/lifestyle, and maybe I'm just a blockhead. But the bottom line is that it looks like I'll have to wade through about 500 pages of documentation before I can even begin to do anything. This is exactly what turned me off Mac programming in the first place.

It's the year 2001. Computers are more powerful and easy to use than ever. So why can't I have something like TCL/TK that compiles? Or SuperCard? Or FaceSpan/AppleScript? Frankly, I'm not even sure it's worth it at this point. I think it will be easier to install X-Windows so I can develop the applets I want with TCL/TK. Seems *so* much simpler than dealing with Cocoa's bs.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm feeling a bit frustrated.

andypolack · Feb 17, 2001, 03:19 PM

Don't go over-board! Take a deep breath and count to ten!

parallax · Feb 17, 2001, 04:40 PM

194 pages for the ObjC docs and 194 for the sys. overview.

I haven't even read them all.

Just look at source code if you're impatient (like me). Work things out from that.

Angus_D · Feb 17, 2001, 05:07 PM

You really need to read the ObjC.pdf, it explains objective ideas like the autorelease pool and things. You need to know about this.

Cocoa isn't as easy as SuperCard, but it's a proper API. SuperCard is pretty lame and evil, and isn't free :-). Cocoa is about as simple as things go in REAL programming... You wouldn't believe how easy it is compared to Carbon (or Classic Toolbox)...

When you go to higher-level than Cocoa, you are too far away to have enough control over things (for example REALbasic, which has millions of unresolved bugs, and has reached Critical Mass� (the stage at which a program has become so convoluted fixing one bug produces n more bugs, and the only way to improve it is to recode from scratch)).

parallax · Feb 17, 2001, 06:18 PM

Yeah I know I have to read that, but still...

You can do SC stuff without knowing much more than what you can figure out from SimpleCocoaApp

dogzilla · Feb 18, 2001, 09:30 AM

OK - I've taken several deep breaths, walked away from the computer, and listened to some St. Etienne. I'm ready to take another crack at it.

So. You suggest I take a look at Obj-C.pdf and then the source for SimpleCocoaApp? I'm not ready to give up yet, but I think I need a little more quality time before taking on the Vt. Recipes.

------------------
Dogzilla:

(err...on the right)

parallax · Feb 18, 2001, 04:51 PM

Other way around.

Look at SimpleCocoaApp (It's simple, trust me).

Get a feel for what's going on, make modifications, &c.

Then read a bit of Sys. Overview and ObjC.

Then read V. Recipes.

JBL · Feb 19, 2001, 12:44 AM

I think the order in which you learn things (and how difficult they will be) depends a lot on your background and goals. If you want to create amounts to a hyperlinked book, and you already know SuperCard, you really want SuperCard or something like it. If you want to do something more complicated you are going to want to use Cocoa. But even in this case, I would say look at Apple's "Object-oriented programming and the Objective-C programming language." I found the messaging syntax of ObjC confusing when I tried looking at programs before I knew anything about ObjC (I think Java is a little more readable if you only know C or C++). I also think it would be hard to understand a Cocoa program if you didn't really understand, object-oriented programming.