[masskinner]

While I'm waiting for JBuilder to ship, I thought I would try Forte. Unfortunately, Sun's site is such a complete mess that I could not determine which files I need and where to get them from. For example, starting with
http://www.sun.com/forte/ffj/resourc...supported.html

I attempted to follow the instructions, but could not figure out where to obtain the files described. I have found the "dt.jar" file, but do not understand the instruction to "Untar, unzip, or use StuffitExpander to extract the Forte for Java installation." What installation? Do they mean NetBeans?

What really bothers me is that Mac OS X 10.1 is shipping with every Mac and contains a full JDK 1.3 installation. Windows XP, meanwhile, ships with no JDK whatsoever. But go to Sun's site and you will easily find links to Windows (and Linux and Solaris) apps all ready to go. When is Sun going to start treating us as a viable platform? How hard would it be to include a link on the download page for OS X users? I had to do a site-wide search just to find the link above. How about an app we can launch from the desktop instead of invoking from the CLI? How about coordinating with Apple to ship Forte CE on the next OS X release?

[iManCE3]

NetBeans (www.netbeans.org) would work better. They have a whole HOW-TO article on Mac OS X and the NetBeans IDE. I have it on OS X and it runs great, if you can get over the lack of a launcher (you must launch it through Terminal).

What really bothers me is that Mac OS X 10.1 is shipping with every Mac and contains a full JDK 1.3 installation. Windows XP, meanwhile, ships with no JDK whatsoever. But go to Sun's site and you will easily find links to Windows (and Linux and Solaris) apps all ready to go. When is Sun going to start treating us as a viable platform? How hard would it be to include a link on the download page for OS X users? I had to do a site-wide search just to find the link above. How about an app we can launch from the desktop instead of invoking from the CLI? How about coordinating with Apple to ship Forte CE on the next OS X release?

I think Apple wanted it that way, although I do agree with you: a link should be placed on Sun's website. It's not all that bad because Apple put time and effort into making their own OS X Look and Feel for Java; something Sun might not have done immediately. It also seems to be integrated more tightly into the system than in Windows (pre-XP). On the other hand, however, it makes it a bit more difficult to register extra packages, like JavaMail, unless you know Unix.

iManCE3

[seb2]

i signed up with their "early adaptors program" to come to aonther confusing page, downloaded the version for solaris (a class-file) and followed the instructions in the pdf.

it works, but -- personally -- think that it wasn't worth it...