Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

curmi · Jul 6, 2001, 09:16 AM

Hi All,

I'm wondering if any of you are doing "real" java development under OSX (not just playing with Java)? Including Swing work?

I've just accepted a new job - a company that mainly uses PC's with Linux for Java development. They've offered me a G4 Powerbook to work on as they know I like Macs - but as I'll be developing in Java I need to know if I can really use OSX to do Java development. I'd certainly like to if it is possible.

Any comparisons to Java on Linux?

Any help appreciated.

MadBrowser · Jul 6, 2001, 10:34 AM

I do J2EE programming (mostly EJB and JMS) on OS X and it works great. I use ProjectBuilder because I don't really like JBuilder, though the latter does work. I would signup with ADC Online and get the beta Java update to OS X. It fixes a lot of the problems from the initial release.

Jul 6, 2001, 10:36 AM

Java works very well on OSX. Don't try using OS9 -- they're still using JDK1.1.8 and there are serious threading issues that won't be overcome with OS9's cooperative multitasking model.

JDK1.3 with Hotspot is implemented in OSX and works very well. I've run large Swing applications (such as the CodeGuide, NetBeans and JBuilder IDEs) and use servlets without any problems. Apple has been working very hard on Java and some of the fruits of their effort (such as shared resources across VMs) will even be integrated in Sun's next official Java spec.

Swing is implemented on top of Aqua and is smooth, although apparently there are some double-buffering inconsistencies between it and PC implementations. You may want to look into this if you're going to be doing GUI stuff. I don't think it's a problem; you just have to know how to handle it.

From my own experience, the Java implementation on OSX performs better than Sun's (formerly Blackdown's) JVM for Linux PPC on the same hardware.

Apple is also embracing Java for native Cocoa applications. You can write a Cocoa application using Java and it will have access to all the OSX native Cocoa and foundation APIs, although it will not be portable to other platforms (until they revive YellowBox for Windows).

Good luck, and have fun.

Scott_H · Jul 6, 2001, 12:36 PM

This thread may feel more at home in the OS X Developer. Please click through and find the topic.

mmj_ngen · Jul 6, 2001, 10:01 PM

I use it when I work from home. It's not bad depending on what your doing (how you define "real" Java programming). I don't use Swing often, which seemed to be an insuated prerequisite for real Java

, so my experience may not constitute a relevent example for your needs.

That said, I develop (my company) mid-scale application servers in Java/Corba. I can use OSX for a lot of my needs, although I'd really appreciate 1.3.1 since we hit a few 1.3.0 bugs at work. So an update on OSX would be nice. I haven't hit any problems compiling, running most things, although I can't run the servers at home. Well, maybe I can, I don't know. I don't think there is a Corba implementation (osagent) for OSX, but I could be totally wrong. I've really never checked into it. So, yes I use Java, and sometimes use OSX without a much of a problem.

A contact at Borland told me JBuilder 5 will be available for OSX in September which is great news whether you like the product or not. Even if you don't like it, I think it may allow for some enhanced debugging for technologies like JSP and threads, although I may be confusing the with it with VisualAge. If it does, then it's probably worth the money for folks doing server pages or backend stuff. I think there was also mention of Visibroker for OSX, which would probably enable me to go 100% OSX if I wanted. Sorry if you only wanted to know about Swing experience. I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

gyc · Jul 6, 2001, 10:44 PM

I've done some Java2 programming with Swing for a job a few months back, and it worked pretty well. It was not a large program, but I don't see any problems using OS X to do Java work.

curmi · Jul 7, 2001, 02:57 AM

Thanks for all the replies guys. It sounds like I should be fine doing Java development on the Mac, and the great thing is I'll be able to do this with work's blessing. Can't wait to get that G4 Powerbook.

dddddd · Jul 10, 2001, 01:54 PM

But what are you all using to test applets?
Last I checked, applets weren't working very well in OS X.

chicken_tastes_good · Jul 10, 2001, 04:33 PM

AppletViewer (with the applet embedded in an html file) worksw great in X - both as the "rocket icon" application and in its command line form.

. . . is it just me or was the original poster talking about java applications and not java applets?

The only Swing I have used was a Jtable

aetius · Jul 10, 2001, 04:50 PM

I work with Java on Mac classic (MRJ), Mac OSX (Project builder), Windows ME and Windows 2000 (CodeWarrior).
I use Java 1.1.x for the web.
Project builder is my favorite developement tool but java/OSX is very slow.
For a comparison, see :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/aetius.attila/Cafe/java.html

The same programs/Applets work on these systems.
Problem with OSX is antialiasing...

curmi · Jul 10, 2001, 07:17 PM

Yes, I was talking about applications, not applets.

It is interesting the comments about Java being slow on OSX. I've tried the demos from the developer CD, and Java seems to run pretty well (though I am on a dual 450 G4).

I would hope the Java team are apple are working to improve performance of Java on OSX? My understanding was that they want to make it the best java platform around. They seem to have done a pretty good job with the Aqua look and feel - I was very impressed about how Aqua-fied it looks and feels (though not perfect. What are those little multi-coloured apple logos on window frames?). And minimised windows in a java application even do the snapshot icon of the window.

Jamie

dddddd · Jul 15, 2001, 11:30 PM

". . . is it just me or was the original poster talking about java applications and not java applets?"

The original poster asked about Java development under OS X. Java development for me and many Java developers includes applications AND applets and servlets, etc....

Not having any browser that properly runs java applets is the most serious limitation for Java development and deployment on OS X.

mccullocht · Jul 17, 2001, 07:11 PM

Java performance under X is getting better. As usual, swing is not fast, but OS X's native lookandfeel is not so fast or stable as the standard Metal lookandfeel. There have been some major speed improvements, especially to swing if you're in ADC (can sign-up for a free online membership), with a couple of DP releases, including a 1.3.1 VM and a prototype hardware acceleration(!) of java.