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You are here: MacNN Forums > Our Archives > General Archives > Servers > What does OS X Server have that OS X (plain) doesn't?

 
What does OS X Server have that OS X (plain) doesn't?
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
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Oct 1, 2001, 04:28 AM
 
What functionality does OS X Server have that is not in plain OS X?

I tried inferring that from the discussions in this group, but everything discussed here seems to be equally possible with plain OS X.

Thanks in advance for educating me!
Mac Nut since before color Macs, working for UT Austin Microcenter supporting Mac users
     
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Oct 2, 2001, 03:50 PM
 
A few major differences include:
  • NetBoot
  • Macintosh Manager
  • WebObjects
  • Better AppleShare services

I have been using OS X Server since v1.01, and I like some aspects of it. I have been disappointed with v10.04, but am looking forward to 10.1. (IMO, 10.04 is usable, but only in some services.)

Happy to help.

-------
It's a Great Day to Be Macintosh!
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Vancouver, WA
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Oct 3, 2001, 09:24 PM
 
1. Services that "vanilla" OS X doesn't have:
- NetBoot (boot several OS 9 machines off the same network-stored disk image)
- Macintosh Manager (control user access privileges on OS 9 machines)
- MySQL (UNIX standard database, useful with WebObjects and PHP et al)
- Samba server (file & print server for windows clients)
- LPR print server
- QuickTime Streaming Server
- Java Server Pages and Servlets
- WebObjects
- SLP server (for making LAN browsing easy)
- DHCP server
- DNS server
- NFS server (UNIX-style file server)

2. Easy administration and configurability of all services (including the ones that are included with "vanilla" OS X but require ugly UNIX tricks to set up). The Server Admin app can administer your server from any Mac OS X or OS 9 machine on the network.

3. Various "extras" that make your life as a server admin easier:
- The standard UNIX "watchdog" tool, which monitors server processes and restarts them if they crash or hang
- Several Apache extensions for "Mac-like" features, like automatic MacBinary encoding/decoding, Find By Content searching, and running Mac apps or AppleScripts as CGIs.
Rick Roe
icons.cx | weblog
     
Forum Regular
Join Date: May 2001
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Oct 4, 2001, 01:36 AM
 
Whatever happened to the 'Backpack' feature that was mentioned quite a while ago? It was to allow laptops to synchronize their user account prefs with a central server, as well as sync work files. I see it mentioned as an item of Macintosh Manager 2, but would like confirmation before I suggest this as a solution for a small office with a single server and several iBook clients...

Is it well implemented? Something to rely on?
     
kennedy  (op)
Mac Elite
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Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Status: Offline
Oct 4, 2001, 04:02 AM
 
Thanks a lot for the list! Here's my evaluation of it relative to my
situation... please let me know if I got it right...

Originally posted by Rickster:
<STRONG>1. Services that "vanilla" OS X doesn't have:
- NetBoot (boot several OS 9 machines off the same network-stored disk image)
- Macintosh Manager (control user access privileges on OS 9 machines)</STRONG>
I will only have OS X machines, no OS 9 -- in that case, do these offer nothing? From Kickaha's comment, Macintosh Manager 2 might support iBook sync... but is that just for OS 9 iBooks?

<STRONG>
- MySQL (UNIX standard database, useful with WebObjects and PHP et al) </STRONG>
I will be buying a network version of FileMaker to support our primary
business application... so, I suspect I will have no need for this.

<STRONG>
- Samba server (file & print server for windows clients) </STRONG>
No PeeCee's here! So, no need for Samba. Well, I guess if I decide
to tie my security monitors (PC based) into my network, it might be
useful.

<STRONG>
- QuickTime Streaming Server
- Java Server Pages and Servlets
- WebObjects</STRONG>
Not sure my website will *need* all that; but if I have it, I am sure
I'll end up putting it to use... particularly the QuickTime Streaming.

<STRONG>

- SLP server (for making LAN browsing easy)
- DHCP server
- DNS server
- LPR print server
- NFS server (UNIX-style file server)</STRONG>
Well, NFS works fine in OS X; though NetInfo Manager is an ugly way
to enable it (does OS X Server provide a nicer interface?).
I suspect LPR service also works fine, though I haven't tested it.
Not sure on DNS, but I suspect its there.
I imagine I'll be using hardware DHCP... or is there something better
about a Mac-based DHCP?
Not sure about SLP.

<STRONG>
2. Easy administration and configurability of all services (including the ones that are included with "vanilla" OS X but require ugly UNIX tricks to set up). The Server Admin app can administer your server from any Mac OS X or OS 9 machine on the network.</STRONG>
I've seen the little demos of the Server Admin interface... definitely looks more pleasant than the undocumented depths of NetInfo Manager... but I wonder how often real sysadmin tasks are not really covered and require going into NetInfo Manager anyway.

<STRONG>
3. Various "extras" that make your life as a server admin easier:
- The standard UNIX "watchdog" tool, which monitors server processes and restarts them if they crash or hang
- Several Apache extensions for "Mac-like" features, like automatic MacBinary encoding/decoding, Find By Content searching, and running Mac apps or AppleScripts as CGIs.</STRONG>
The watchdog tool, if it can automatically detect hung machines and get them back up and running... then it could be worth the cost all alone.
And I will be supporting a significant website eventually, so the Apache extensions may also be worth investing in.

Thanks a lot for educating me,

Brian
Mac Nut since before color Macs, working for UT Austin Microcenter supporting Mac users
     
Mac Elite
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Location: Vancouver, WA
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Oct 8, 2001, 03:55 PM
 
Well, NFS works fine in OS X; though NetInfo Manager is an ugly way
to enable it (does OS X Server provide a nicer interface?).
It looks like Server Admin has some controls for NFS, but I haven't looked to see what the extent of it is.

I imagine I'll be using hardware DHCP... or is there something better
about a Mac-based DHCP?
More configurability, possibly. There seems to be some stuff in their documentation about setting it up to be a "smarter" DHCP than one usually ends up working with.

I wonder how often real sysadmin tasks are not really covered and require going into NetInfo Manager anyway.
I haven't moved my server to the OS X 10.x Server yet, but I fooled around with beta versions of the product. It looks like most of your needs can be handled through Server Admin, and only the really esoteric stuff requires NetInfo Manager. Also, Server comes with some really good NetInfo documentation. Oh, and one other nice thing: Server Admin includes a for-mere-mortals GUI for setting up the built-in firewall.
Rick Roe
icons.cx | weblog
     
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Location: Arlington, MA, USA
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Oct 9, 2001, 07:17 AM
 
I wonder if Kennedy is trying to figure out what I'm trying to figure out. How to set up a root domain using just an OS X box, and not an OS X Server box so that multiple other OS X boxen can login and use shared apps, printing, etc. The capability appears to exist in OS X, but as has been stated, you have to go through NetInfo Manager to enable it all. There are various ways to create other domains via the manager, but there is no documentation and you are prompted for various information that you may not know. I have looked back at NetInfo docs for NeXTStep, and they too had administrative tools for configuring it. I posted a new functionality request (or was it a bug report?) to Apple to add some admin apps for home users that have more than one OS X box. Personally I have a dual 533 G4, an iBook, and a Firewire G3 powerbook. I want to be able to set up user accounts on the G4 for myself and my girlfriend, and then have the iBook and Powerbook access a domain running on the G4. Sharing applications is nice, but I would only do it if the airport network proved fast enough. But sharing home directories, address book, and preferences would be hugely beneficial! Not to mention the USB printer attached to the G4. I tried setting up a root domain on the iBook, but I was lacking certain information. I did create a new domain, but I don't believe it is running.

I really would love to see Apple support home users with multiple machines, because it isn't reasonable to expect home users to buy a copy of server. They could restrict their support to a 2 level hierarchy, one root domain, and multiple local domains. This would make it useful, but not a reasonable replacement for OS X Server for larger organizations.

Maybe with the help of some server owners, we could use this forum to figure out how to create and run domains under OS X?
     
kennedy  (op)
Mac Elite
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Oct 9, 2001, 07:36 AM
 
Originally posted by srcleaves:
<STRONG>I wonder if Kennedy is trying to figure out what I'm trying to figure out. How to set up a root domain using just an OS X box, and not an OS X Server box so that multiple other OS X boxen can login and use shared apps, printing, etc.</STRONG>
Actually, I already figured that out... well, at least the login part.
I'll post instructions for you in the next message. I've only partially got shared apps working. If anyone knows how to get shared apps working, please see question below.

No, the intent of this thread is: Given that I can setup lots of this server functionality via Netinfo Manager, what more does OS X Server get me? For my home network, I doubt I'd ever invest in Server. But for my small business' network, Server may be worth the $1000. But it needs more than just pretty interfaces to hide Netinfo. I have gotten some good answers so far, and am reading up about those features. If anyone knows other good reasons to invest the $1000, please respond.

As for shared apps, I simply exported an Applications directory from my server and mounted it on my clients. With that done, some of the apps (mostly the freeware apps) show up as apps and run just fine. Some of the apps (mostly the purchased apps) show up as documents and don't run at all. Based on the split, I have a feeling this is by-design, to prevent people from cheating on software purchases. In my case, I am the only user of these apps... but I want to be able to use them from any one of my Macs. (I'll work on my nice G4 with the big LCD screen unless my wife is logged in there, then I'll jump over to an iMac and work from there.) Installing the apps on every machine is a pain AND the dock links don't seem to be portable. It would be nice to be able to install on just the server and have it available on each client.

Does anyone know how to make apps mounted from a server work consistently?
Or does anyone know why/how its designed to *not* work?

Thanks!
Mac Nut since before color Macs, working for UT Austin Microcenter supporting Mac users
     
Fresh-Faced Recruit
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Oct 9, 2001, 07:45 AM
 
That is excellent, I am very interested in reading your post about how to do the login aspects of domains. Perhaps I should seek another forum for this semi-related question, but... Does OS X support wake on lan? Or is that a firmware thing? In which case does the G4 support it? I don't necessarily want to have the G4 running all the time, right now I put it to sleep whenever it is not in use.[/LIST]
     
kennedy  (op)
Mac Elite
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Oct 9, 2001, 07:47 AM
 
Originally posted by srcleaves:
<STRONG>I really would love to see Apple support home users with multiple machines, because it isn't reasonable to expect home users to buy a copy of server. They could restrict their support to a 2 level hierarchy, one root domain, and multiple local domains. This would make it useful, but not a reasonable replacement for OS X Server for larger organizations.

Maybe with the help of some server owners, we could use this forum to figure out how to create and run domains under OS X?</STRONG>
Here is how I have done it, thanks in part to prior posts from forum member "MacTroll".

Disclaimer: I am no expert... following these directions has you modifying some delicate and critical files to OS X operation... make sure you've backed up your system and can tolerate and handle a re-install of OS X if something goes awry... I am an idiot... never take advice from an idiot. With that understanding...

Here's how to use OS X to set up a home network supporting remote user accounts...

1) Enable root user on your server machine.
(If you don't know how, I suggest you not continue.)

2) Backup netinfo database.
su root
cd /var/db/netinfo
cp -r local.nidb local.nidbak

3) Open Netinfo Manager and authenticate yourself.

4) Export the directory to contain your user directories.
Select root level of database.
Add subdirectory; name it 'exports' (assuming one doesn't exist).
Select 'exports' and add subdirectory.
Name it with the path that you want to export (i.e. /Users).
Add a 'clients' property with no value (to allow everyone).
Add an 'opts' property with no value, or with any options
you would like (esp. the 'alldirs' value to allow you to
mount any subdirectory of this export.

5) Mount the directory that will contain your user directories.
Select the '/mounts' directory.
Add subdirectory; name it "127.0.0.1:/Users", assuming that
is the directory where your network accounts are.
Add property 'dir' with value "/Network/Users".
Add property 'vfstype' with value "nfs".
Add property 'opts' with values "bg", "union", and "w".
For more info, see "http://www.burntchicken.com/rich/osxnfs.html".

6) Select '/machines/localhost' and Duplicate it.
Set the name to the name of your server.
Add an additional value to the 'serves' property: '../network'.

7) Select menu Domain-&gt;Manage Domain-&gt;Hierarchy and 'create a new
master server on this host', the last option in the list. You
can check to limit access to the data to the LAN.
If Netinfo Manager unexpectedly quits, just restart it.
Then do File-&gt;Open by Tag and fill in "127.0.0.1" and "network"
to open the new domain.

8) Select '/machines'. There should be one entry in there.
Select that entry.
Change the 'name' property's value to the name of your server.
The 'serves' property should have value './network'.
Add a value to the serves property: '&lt;server-name&gt;/local'.
For more info, go to Apple's website, Mac OS X, Server, and
view the "Understanding and Using Netinfo" paper.

9) Launch the program /Applications/Utilities/Directory Setup.
Deselect the first two options and select connect to a
particular server: "127.0.0.1" and "network" tag.

10) Restart Server

11) Launch Netinfo Manager. The 'local' domain will open.
Click on the globe icon to open parent domain.
The 'network' domain will open.

12) Create users.
Select '/users' in the 'network' domain.
Switch to 'local' domain and select a particular user
defined in '/users'.
Drag from the blue folder icon of 'local' over to the blue
folder icon of 'network' in order to copy a user.
If the users you want defined for the whole network are
already defined, you can continue copying them; if not,
just Duplicate entries as you go.
For each copied/duplicated user, you will need to change
all property values to have the desired name.
You will also need to change the home directory location
to /Network/Users.

13) Proceed to L1 below for one client machine, set up that client
machine, test... only if working should you finish cleaning
up the server.

14) [Skip this step until you've tested that all is working.
Then just delete one local user and test. Then delete rest.]
Delete local users that conflict with network users.
Select the 'local' domain, '/users' directory,
and then select each user you've copied over to 'network'
domain and delete it from the 'local' domain.
Make sure you leave a local admin account!
If you don't, and the network stuff fails, you will have
no way to login and fix things!!
You may want to rename it 'admin' to avoid conflicts if
your existing admin account is to be a network account.

15) Restart server.


FOR EACH CLIENT MACHINE...

L1) Open Netinfo Manager and authenticate yourself.

L2) Mount the directory that will contain your user directories.
Select the '/mounts' directory.
Add subdirectory; name it "&lt;server-ip&gt;:/Users", assuming that
is the directory where your network accounts are.
Add property 'dir' with value "/Network/Users".
Add property 'vfstype' with value "nfs".
Add property 'opts' with values "bg", "union", and "w".

L3) Open Directory Setup.
Deselect the first two options and select connect to a
particular server: "&lt;server-ip&gt;" and "network" tag.

L4) Restart client machine.
You should now be able to login with your remote served accounts.

Hope that helps!

P.S. If any of you OS X Server users read through that, please let us know whether that would be much easier (or at all easier) with OS X Server.
Mac Nut since before color Macs, working for UT Austin Microcenter supporting Mac users
     
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Oct 9, 2001, 08:51 AM
 
Awesome! Thanks! I'll be setting this up on my iBook first just to try it since I feel I need to nuke it and reinstall anyway. The G4 has all of our real work on it, so its not quite so experimental or easy to reinstall.
     
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Oct 9, 2001, 01:59 PM
 
Super schweet, Kennedy!!!

I've started to plan a network of OS X and Win users on a new OS X Server and I've been thinking whether all you've described would be possible. Next step (pun intended) is to figure out if it's all easier to achieve with Server, and wheather it could be done somehow for Windows clients as well. It would really make things easier if I could centralise file management and preferences (not so much apps, those are not a huge thing in my organisation) on the server to keep things nicely backed up all the time through the AFS cells available to us, and to enable access to files network-wide. The idea, of course, is that any user would be able to use any computer on-site to access his or her own 'home' directory and work under his or her system settings.

A problem, of course, would be mobile users with take-home work on dial-up connections. I guess you wouldn't want to serve the entire home directories over 56k... I "backpack check out" solution for OS X clients would be worth a great deal...
     
Forum Regular
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Oct 10, 2001, 02:42 AM
 
That 'backpack' is *exactly* what I'm looking for... from the docs on 10.1 MOSXS, it seems that it's only for OS 9 clients. Bleah.

Since kennedy seems to be on the ball here, I've got a NetInfo question.

On reading the NetInfo docs, it appears that the local NI domain is searched first for login/filespace info, and only if it isn't found, is a server searched.

I want the opposite... If a laptop is hooked into the network, it will authenticate and grab the proper info from the server *first*, then, if and only if the server isn't found (ie, it's not on the network) it uses the info on the local machine domain. Syncing (appropriate) user prefs between the server and the local copy would be ideal, as would would the above mentioned backpack feature.

Possible to do in NetInfo? Change the lookup order?
     
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Oct 12, 2001, 02:37 AM
 
What about the user licences? Since OS X server includes a 10 user or unlimited user licence, does that mean OS X client edition has a limited licence for use as a server, or does that just apply for the fancy features, like WebObjects?
     
Fresh-Faced Recruit
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Oct 12, 2001, 04:54 AM
 
What you should do is lurk in the Apple Discussions on OSXS (http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?f50@102.NgupaFtKgqZ^0@.ee6ba34). Most things are covered there.

No you don't have to spend $1000, but $250 to $500 depending on whether you can buy education or not. You only get 10 concurrent users, but if you have 20 works stations, but never more than 10 at one time are connected, you are ok. I have not tried more than a couple simultanious transfers from a standard OSX box, so I do not know how many connections it allows.

I have been beating up OSXS since it came out. I have many problems with its implementation, but the speed of data transfer and multiple simultanious transfers, is awesome. Standard OSX does not seem to come close, nor does Windows 2000 Advanced Server, which I also own.

One thing that is not mentioned is that there is also a full mail server, and DNS, as well as other server/networking parts included in OSXS. Granted, most need a bunch of "Apple attention to detail" that is still missing...meaning; looks & smells like UNIX.

With all its current flaws, OSXS should become a premier server, and just may be with 10.1, if I ever get the updater... for some reason, Apple REQUIRES you to snailmail your request for the OSXS updater to them with proof of purchase. They do not accept faxes nor attachements to email. I mailed mine over a week ago and have heard nothing, and have no way of knowing if they ever got the info.
     
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Oct 12, 2001, 01:31 PM
 
I'm following the directions posted by Kennedy, but I am having no luck copying the users from local to network. Everytime I try it fails with a dialog stating: NetInfo write failed! (Operation succeeded)

I am not getting a copy. I know I can probably do this manually, but I am wondering if the failure is indicative of something I did wrong in the earlier instructions?

thanks,
stephan
     
kennedy  (op)
Mac Elite
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Oct 14, 2001, 04:38 PM
 
Originally posted by srcleaves:
<STRONG>I'm following the directions posted by Kennedy, but I am having no luck copying the users from local to network. Everytime I try it fails with a dialog stating: NetInfo write failed! (Operation succeeded)

I am not getting a copy. I know I can probably do this manually, but I am wondering if the failure is indicative of something I did wrong in the earlier instructions?
</STRONG>
Sorry for the delay in response... I actually responded, but it vanished (I guess due to the 'hack attempt').

I got that error also (probably about the same time you did). It does not occur under 10.0.4. I am not sure what caused it, but I think its related to the renaming done in step 8. After going back through the steps again, looking for things different in 10.1, here's my recommendation:

Under 10.1, delete step 8. (You don't need to add the extra value to the 'serves' property as you did in 10.0.4... its already there under 10.1. And you do NOT want to change the server name from whatever it defaulted to... I am guessing there are some other properties under 10.1 that use that name or demand it be consistent.)

So, assuming you changed the name, change it back... in both the name property and the serves property.

One other change I made to the instructions that might be related: my step 6 doesn't specify the order of the values on the 'serves' property. I put the ../network value *after* the ./local value. I have no idea if the order matters at all.

Hope that fixes your problem.
And I hope I don't have to retype this post again.
Mac Nut since before color Macs, working for UT Austin Microcenter supporting Mac users
     
 
   
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