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chabig · Jul 25, 2003, 11:09 AM

On my 800MHz iBook, Adobe Reader 6 takes 30 bounces to launch. There is nothing slower!

OptimusG4 · Jul 25, 2003, 11:15 AM

I mainly use preview for my pdf's. I tossed Adobe Reader out...now if I find something requires it, then I may just add it back but until then, its gone.

workerbee · Jul 25, 2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by chabig:
On my 800MHz iBook, Adobe Reader 6 takes 30 bounces to launch. There is nothing slower!

Have you tried Adobe Acrobat 6 Professional yet?

TheIceMan · Jul 25, 2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by workerbee:
Have you tried Adobe Acrobat 6 Professional yet?

OMG, you're not kidding. It takes just as long if not a little longer. I use to think it was me imagining it or there was something wrong with my computer. 30 seconds is not good for something that should popup instantly to help us view pdf documents. The old Acrobat Reader/Pro was much faster. But v.6 is just plain too slow.

Uncle Skeleton · Jul 25, 2003, 12:29 PM

Help Viewer takes about 29 bounces on my dual 1 ghz quicksilver

JLL · 01:18 PM

Most of the launch time is plug-ins loading - disable the ones you don't use to make it launch faster. You can also disable update checking.

7 bounces on my 900MHz iBook.

Webscreamer · Jul 25, 2003, 08:29 PM

Help Viewer is a slow loader...and its FUGLY.

Does Panther Help Viewer have the safari rendering engine in it?

chabig · 06:49 AM

Most of the launch time is plug-ins loading - disable the ones you don't use.

Thanks for the reminder. I forgot I could do that!

Chris

macmike42 · Jul 25, 2003, 09:11 PM

What are you talking about? Adobe Reader is the fastest launching Adobe program on OS X period!

[edit: great tip about disabling the plugins, now it takes 4 seconds to launch as opposed to nearly 30]

SomeToast · Jul 25, 2003, 09:19 PM

The only reason I keep Reader around is because it can search within PDFs.

Soon as 10.3 is released, it's out the door!

MaxPower2k3 · Jul 25, 2003, 09:23 PM

safari took 53 bounces once after it unexpectedly quit on my stock PB12"... that's abnormal, but it usually takes at least 10-15 to boot up normally.

nickm · Jul 26, 2003, 02:44 AM

Um...How do I disable plugins?

geekwagon · Jul 26, 2003, 03:58 AM

I voted no, but I can actually think of one that launches slower: Eclipse. I timed it the other day on my 17" powerbook, it took almost 60 seconds to launch.

It's written in Java though so it has some kind of excuse.

An Alias · Jul 26, 2003, 08:58 AM

I can load a 40 foot container full of marble quicker than the time it takes Reader to load. Once it's launched, it's just the worst computing experience to date.

Preview in Panther is incredible, nothing like the current preview, and I'll dump Reader once it comes out.

Help viewer is virtually instant in Panther, good news all round.

Powaqqatsi · Jul 26, 2003, 09:03 AM

Which plug-ins should I disable ?

JLL · Jul 26, 2003, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by nickm:
Um...How do I disable plugins?

Do a Show Info on Reader and you can disable plug-ins.

tdvorak · Jul 26, 2003, 10:37 AM

Acrobat Professional is slow as well, it bounces only twice, but then takes around 20-30 seconds to open. Also actually open PDFs and converting them (to whatever) takes a while as well.

voodoo · Jul 26, 2003, 10:56 AM

What'layman' app needs an Adobe Nerd to make it usable?

I've been using Preview for more than a year EXCLUSIVELY, without problems. It is fast enough now (launches infinitely faster than Adobe Reader)and will be severely kick-ass in Panther.

JLL · Jul 26, 2003, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
What'layman' app needs an Adobe Nerd to make it usable?

Yet Another Personal Attack From Voodoo �

Originally posted by voodoo:
I've been using Preview for more than a year EXCLUSIVELY, without problems. It is fast enough now (launches infinitely faster than Adobe Reader)and will be severely kick-ass in Panther.

Try printing a PDF made with FOP in your beloved Preview.

Horsepoo!!! · Jul 26, 2003, 11:58 AM

What's FOP?

JLL · Jul 26, 2003, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Horseshit!!!:
What's FOP?

http://xml.apache.org/fop/

Horsepoo!!! · Jul 26, 2003, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
http://xml.apache.org/fop/

A note at the bottom of the page says that all PDFs on their site are created using FOP...so I click the 'printer friendly PDF' icon and it opened up in Preview 10.3. Maybe 10.3's Preview can open FOP files now...but is there a way to tell if it's created in FOP or should I take their word that *every* PDFs on their site are created in FOP?

voodoo · Jul 26, 2003, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
Yet Another Personal Attack From Voodoo �

Try printing a PDF made with FOP in your beloved Preview.

Ha! You think too much of yourself. I was just commenting on the irony of it all.

As for the FOP (whatever that is) - never heard of it. I hardly need to print out from formats I don't use.

... we are talking about p d f s aren't we? It is a clear sign you are too involved in a programs functions rather than it's usefulness. ie a 'nerd'.

JLL · Jul 26, 2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Horseshit!!!:
A note at the bottom of the page says that all PDFs on their site are created using FOP...so I click the 'printer friendly PDF' icon and it opened up in Preview 10.3. Maybe 10.3's Preview can open FOP files now...but is there a way to tell if it's created in FOP or should I take their word that *every* PDFs on their site are created in FOP?

Preview in 10.2 (and earlier) can open FOP created PDFs, but when you print them out, half the letters are missing - that's not the case in Acrobat.

voodoo · Jul 26, 2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
http://xml.apache.org/fop/

are there any fop pdfs that I should try? (edit: nevermind - it was the printing thing you were talking about - and I don't have Panther or Adobe "el shaito" Reader)

JLL · Jul 26, 2003, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
As for the FOP (whatever that is) - never heard of it.

And that's my problem?

Originally posted by voodoo:
... we are talking about p d f s aren't we? It is a clear sign you are too involved in a programs functions rather than it's usefulness. ie a 'nerd'.

How?

Preview isn't useful to me and my colleagues since we handle FOP created PDFs all day.

voodoo · Jul 26, 2003, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
And that's my problem?

your problems are numerous enough, but to try and make the Zealot understand: I DON'T CARE ABOUT "FOP" - Never HEARD OF IT => I don't CARE about it YOU brought it up.

JLL · Jul 26, 2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
your problems are numerous enough, but to try and make the Zealot understand: I DON'T CARE ABOUT "FOP" - Never HEARD OF IT => I don't CARE about it YOU brought it up.

You obviously care enough to attack me for showing things that Preview can't handle.

Horsepoo!!! · Jul 26, 2003, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
You obviously care enough to attack me for showing things that Preview can't handle.

I think the point voodoo and I are making is that there may be a few that may still need Reader around for things like printing FOPs created PDFs or filling out forms...they can keep using Reader.

But for the average Joe, Preview will do just fine.

Seriously, I've never ran into a FOP created PDF in my entire life (can't confirm that but I'm fairly certain of this since I've been using Preview almost exclusively for over 2 years and never had problems printing my PDFs or viewing them.)

I think I may have run into one PDF form in my life...I printed it out and filled it out manually (since I wasn't supposed to send it back to them electronically and I actually had to sign it.)

Preview has a clean, easy-to-use interface, is able to convert into many different formats, and starting with Panther, it'll be ridiculously fast. The tradeoff for me would be not being able to fill out forms or open FOP created PDFs...two problems that I never run into.

The Preview benefits in my case far outweigh Reader's benefits.

I could be wrong but I think most users are in the same scenario I'm in with only a few like yourself that have to rely on certain features that aren't available in Preview.

If the people in the same situation I'm in are scared of missing out on form filling and FOP created files, they can keep a copy of Reader on their HD...but I'm happy to be able to click on a PDF link in my browser or open a PDF file on my desktop and have it display near-instantaneously.

TheIceMan · Jul 26, 2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Which plug-ins should I disable ?

Yes, which plug-ins do I disable? I don't know what most of them do. Any source to offer a rough summary of each? The help menu in Acrobat is not helpful.

workerbee · Jul 26, 2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
Yes, which plug-ins do I disable? I don't know what most of them do.

Same here...

nickm · Jul 27, 2003, 03:49 AM

The problem with Preview is that it doesn't do text search, nor does it allow you to select and copy text. When Panther arrives, I'll definitely put Adobe Reader out to pasture, though...

workerbee · Jul 27, 2003, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by nickm:
The problem with Preview is that it doesn't do text search, nor does it allow you to select and copy text. When Panther arrives, I'll definitely put Adobe Reader out to pasture, though...

Preview also does not seem to know anything about far-out and wild Acrobat features like Comments/Reviews in a pdf, which we happen to use every now and then.
Besides, having paid up for Acrobat Pro, I'd really like Adobe to step up and change it into something at least resembling usability on the OSX platform. Right now it feels as if I was working in VPC -- which possibly would even be faster.

malvolio · Jul 28, 2003, 02:44 PM

The only apps I know of that open as slowly as Adobe Reader are Java or XWindows apps like LimeWire, XNap and OpenOffice.org (the slowness champion).

jszrules · Jul 28, 2003, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by malvolio:
The only apps I know of that open as slowly as Adobe Reader are Java or XWindows apps like LimeWire, XNap and OpenOffice.org (the slowness champion).

iDVD might rank up there, too

dru · Jul 28, 2003, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
http://xml.apache.org/fop/

Uh, does FOP conform to the PDF spec or is Acrobat Reader compensating in a way that Preview (written to the spec as well) does not. You do notice that FOP is only a 0.2 release.

Um... yeah.

If you really believe Apple should fix this on their end (err... ok) then send a bug report.

'Can't believe the expectations of some open source zealots.

voodoo · Jul 29, 2003, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by dru:

If you really believe Apple should fix this on their end (err... ok) then send a bug report.

'Can't believe the expectations of some open source zealots.

Adobe zealot actually. He's an Adobe zealot.

You bring up a good point: why should anything be in compliance with a 0.2 release of a software product. Bah.

DVD Plaza · Jul 29, 2003, 10:01 PM

The problem isn't Mac specific - Adobe's Acrobat Reader is the slowest launching program on this planet, even on Windows.

In the time it takes Acrobat Reader to initialise itself you can launch Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Entourage (or Outlook if on Windows), etc and Acrobat Reader will (with no exaggeration what-so-ever) still be loading itself... insane when you think about it, it's a damn viewer!!!

macmike42 · Jul 29, 2003, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
which plug-ins do I disable?

I disabled all of them and it works fine.

neilw · Jul 30, 2003, 12:27 AM

Holy crap on toast, that really makes it better. I don't know if/when I'm going to miss any of those plug-ins, but in the meantime it's nice having the tool be at least somewhat sane.

On another AR-related subject, I have an idea for Adobe, offered here freely: make it so that when you page up or page down within a document, it actually goes up or down exactly one page. What a concept!

JLL · Aug 9, 2003, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by dru:
Uh, does FOP conform to the PDF spec or is Acrobat Reader compensating in a way that Preview (written to the spec as well) does not. You do notice that FOP is only a 0.2 release. Um... yeah.

Actually it's a 0.20 release - big difference.

On another note: I don't know if people are aware that there is a basic version of Reader that doesn't have that many plug-ins included.

Download it here.

voodoo · Aug 10, 2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
Actually it's a 0.20 release - big difference.

um. no.

0.20 is a completely arbitrary and therefore meaningless number. Even if the developers are following some sort of a plan. Oh, actually it does mean ONE thing. It means IT'S NOT FRIGGIN' READY. Picture that.

1.0 traditionally means GM, everything below that is just whatever.

PS. maybe you were being sarcastic, and if so it wasn't very funny. I think you were just being anal.

JLL · Aug 10, 2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
um. no.

0.20 is a completely arbitrary and therefore meaningless number. Even if the developers are following some sort of a plan. Oh, actually it does mean ONE thing. It means IT'S NOT FRIGGIN' READY. Picture that.

1.0 traditionally means GM, everything below that is just whatever.

PS. maybe you were being sarcastic, and if so it wasn't very funny. I think you were just being anal.

0.2 = second release

0.20 = twentieth release

voodoo · Aug 10, 2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
0.2 = second release

0.20 = twentieth release

Well well, master of the obvious huh?

I knew that already jll, the 0. in front of the number (whatever it might be..) indicated it is NOT ready. Not to mention that version numbers below 1 are arbitrary. They signinfy nothing but a release number AND that the product ISN'T ready.

=> No Apple support, nor should there be.

JLL · Aug 10, 2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
Well well, master of the obvious huh?

I knew that already jll, the 0. in front of the number (whatever it might be..) indicated it is NOT ready. Not to mention that version numbers below 1 are arbitrary. They signinfy nothing but a release number AND that the product ISN'T ready.

=> No Apple support, nor should there be.

Funny that you want to argue about FOP which you know absolutely nothing about.

voodoo · Aug 10, 2003, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by JLL:

Toyin · Aug 11, 2003, 09:58 AM

I use preview and kept Acrobat Reader 5 around.

As for the slowest app to launch, the vote goes to iMovie. I had one 26minute project with several 100 cuts and transitions and that takes a good 2 minutes to initially load. Even iDVD starts up faster.

12"PB 640MB 7200rpm drive.

mindwaves · Aug 11, 2003, 01:48 PM

I think that the matter has benn settled.