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Eug · 08:23 AM

So I'm a n00b who can't even play the piano. I managed to learn a few pieces (sorta) but I'd like to continue practicing. I haven't practiced ever since I upgraded my PC to 2000/XP - software no longer works. I'd like to now make my TiBook the centre of my music universe, but I don't know what to get.

I don't really need a hardcore sequencer, but it'd be nice if I could get at least a simple one, preferably with sheet music generation from MIDI. What I really need though is the sounds. I want to turn the TiBook into a versatile sound module. I'd want a good acoustic piano and the usual general MIDI stuff. Nothing special for now. I downloaded some demos of VSamp and Unity, but they don't seem to provide the sounds.

How about Reason 2.5? I have never used this program, and indeed, I have never even SEEN this program, but it seems to get good reviews. (I'll the demo a whirl.) And it seems I could even use these synths with another program like Logic if I ever decide to do so. It has an "analogue" type sequencer however and I have never used an analogue sequencer. Plus, I don't really feel like spending either $400 on Reason or $700 on Logic.

What other inexpensive software is there with good sounds?

Hardware:
Kaysound MK-6101 El cheapo 5 octave MIDI controller keyboard, velocity sensitive, non-weighted (No sounds)
M-Audio MIDISport 2x2 USB MIDI interface
TiBook 1 GHz
No sound modules whatsoever

Hi I'm Ben · Jul 28, 2003, 12:17 AM

i'm looking for a program to break midis into notes and print sheet music.

besson3c · Jul 28, 2003, 01:06 AM

There is a library that you can access when you can register Vsamp. The instruments aren't that great, but...

I believe you generally have to pay for or pirate your Audio Unit/VST instruments. The good ones can be very expensive to purchase.

Eug · 08:33 AM

There is a library that you can access when you can register Vsamp. The instruments aren't that great, but...

I believe you generally have to pay for or pirate your Audio Unit/VST instruments. The good ones can be very expensive to purchase.

Yeah, but after thinking about it Vsamp doesn't seem to me to be a great solution. $40 for registration with a rough-around-the-edges installation/interface, and (from what you tell me), mediocre sounds.

My old PC sound blaster had mediocre sounds but the sequencing software and the sounds came free with the card, and more reasonable 3rd party sounds seemed widely available (for a fee). Where do get commercial sounds for the TiBook for <$100?

However, if I'm going to have to spend some coin for the TiBook anyway, I'm thinking I might be better off just spending $150-200 right off the bat and do it right (if possible for that amount of money). I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of time scouring the net for freebie sounds that may or may not work properly. However. I'm not so keen on spending $400 on Reason 2 at this point either.

Or maybe I should just buy a sound module.

i'm looking for a program to break midis into notes and print sheet music.

Yeah, I'd like this too. My previous consumer-level software had this feature. Very convenient.

gorickey · Jul 28, 2003, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
i'm looking for a program to break midis into notes and print sheet music.

Will Finale Notepad 2003a from Cody Software conquer this?

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macos/9497

Eug · Jul 28, 2003, 08:55 AM

Well, Logic does MIDI --> sheetmusic... for $700.

besson3c · Jul 28, 2003, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
[B]Yeah, but after thinking about it Vsamp doesn't seem to me to be a great solution. $40 for registration with a rough-around-the-edges installation/interface, and (from what you tell me), mediocre sounds.

The whole point of Vsamp is not simply to provide you with a bunch of sounds to play with. The instruments that are provided with Vsamp are a bonus, but I would use Vsamp even without the access to these instruments.

Vsamp allows you to use your software based VST/AU instruments in your audio programs, and allows you to create banks of your favorite instrument combinations. I use Vsamp in collaberation with Sibelius, for instance, so that I can hear better sounding instruments than the tinny QT Musical Instruments I would otherwise be stuck with.

The best instruments these days seem to be software based, and Vsamp enables you to use them in your favorite sequencer/notation program with your MIDI controller.

Where do get commercial sounds for the TiBook for <$100?

There are no sounds written specifically for your TiBook. Instruments are a collection of samples that are assembled as VST instruments or Audio Units (which is what they are called in OS X). As long as your software supports these formats, you can use these instruments. They aren't platform dependant.

However, if I'm going to have to spend some coin for the TiBook anyway, I'm thinking I might be better off just spending $150-200 right off the bat and do it right (if possible for that amount of money). I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of time scouring the net for freebie sounds that may or may not work properly. However. I'm not so keen on spending $400 on Reason 2 at this point either.

What do you want to do? There is an endless supply of instruments and samples throughout the net. As I said before, since most software supports VST instruments these days, I wouldn't worry about the compatability issue (although you may have to use Vsamp to push this information around).

Are you looking for a bunch of random sounds that will cost under $100? It would probably be best to acquire your sounds piecemeal as your compositions warrant/inspire.

Or maybe I should just buy a sound module.

From what I gather, the pros instruments are all software based these days. You need some hardware to handle playing many software based instruments simultaneously (hence the Logic G5 WWDC demo), but I have heard some astonishingly good stuff. This seems to be direction things are moving.

As you can tell, I'm not an authority on this subject matter yet, but I've been getting advice from somebody that is.

Eug · Jul 28, 2003, 10:39 AM

Well, as a n00b my superficial concept of a dream system would be something like a dual G5 running Logic, controlling a bunch of PCs running Gigasampler or something.

However, what I really just need is sound module software and maybe a simple sequencer. Yeah, I know the TiBook doesn't need custom sounds. If there are some inexpensive VST samples easily found with no glitches using with VSamp, maybe I'll just do that, as you originally suggested, and get a sequencer later, when I actually know how to play this damn thing properly.

However, being a n00b I was interested in having a $150 pre-packaged solution, complete with general MIDI sounds and a simple sequencer. I was just a bit surprised at the dearth of lower-end software for the Mac for this purpose. Maybe Apple should write iComposer ?

Hmmm...

And. I wonder how much Logic educational costs... I'd still need the instruments though.

besson3c · Jul 28, 2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
However, what I really just need is sound module software and maybe a simple sequencer. Yeah, I know the TiBook doesn't need custom sounds. If there are some inexpensive VST samples easily found with no glitches using with VSamp, maybe I'll just do that, as you originally suggested, and get a sequencer later, when I actually know how to play this damn thing properly.

I have yet to encounter a glitch with Vsamp. It works just as advertised.

The thing is, there are some instruments with samples filesizes over or around 1 gig. You can get a cheap sound module with instruments probably as good as the Vsamp freebes, or acquire some kick ass instruments piecemeal. A random grabbag of really fine instruments I'm sure would require tons of HD capacity and bread.

It all depends on what you want to do. I wouldn't even consider laying down bread for instruments or anything for that matter until you know what you are looking for sonically.

Eug · Jul 28, 2003, 11:02 AM

What sequencer have you been using with VSamp, and how do like your sequencer?

Hi I'm Ben · Jul 28, 2003, 11:12 AM

No it won't. Cause it runs on OS 9 =/

Originally posted by gorickey:
Will Finale Notepad 2003a from Cody Software conquer this?

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macos/9497

gorickey · Jul 28, 2003, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
No it won't. Cause it runs on OS 9 =/

True; however, it works just fine using Classic mode and an update is due out first of January...

neilw · Jul 28, 2003, 01:27 PM

Just a couple more suggestions:

1) Reason can be had for <$300. Had to mention that, not that it's necessarily your best choice for what you want to do (totally cool program, though).

2) Native Instruments Kompakt: software sample player with sound library can be had for $144 at DoctorAudio.

3) BitHeadz Unity Player is a sample player, $139 from DoctorAudio. Can't tell if it comes with a sound library or not.

I *believe* that of these three only Reason includes a sequencer.

I know you said <$100, but these aren't too much more, and are professional-quality programs despite being obviously less feature-full than the higher-end stuff.

Hi I'm Ben · Jul 28, 2003, 02:14 PM

Ya but i'd have to buy it for 25$, then probably pay for an update WAY later in the future. I'm looking for more of a today thing.. I'm trying my hardest to remove classic completely. I hate it.

Originally posted by gorickey:
True; however, it works just fine using Classic mode and an update is due out first of January...

besson3c · Jul 28, 2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
What sequencer have you been using with VSamp, and how do like your sequencer?

I actually have been using Sibelius right now. It's not a sequencer, but I'm producing music for live musicians to perform so I prefer the visual aspect of generating a part and watching it develop.

Eug · Jul 28, 2003, 04:54 PM

Hmmm... Unlike Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro, as far as I can tell there is no educational version of Logic. My institution has no educational pricing (and hence does not carry it), and I don't see any mention of it on the education section of the Apple website. (N.B. My institution does have a music dept.)

Is it true that Logic has no educational discount?

Mr. Blur · Jul 28, 2003, 10:00 PM

I'd recommend reading some of the stuff over at OS X Audio and/or MusicOnMac - you'll find a much more info there...articles, reviews, forums etc...all specialized for audio stuff.

besson3c · Jul 29, 2003, 05:14 PM

Just thought of something..

Download Rax and check out the Zoyd instruments... pretty sweet and free of charge.

fisherKing · Jul 29, 2003, 05:23 PM

reason 2.5 is extraordinary; great sounds, logical interface.
i've been using it for over a year; got rid of all my hardware! (synths, samplers)

i use it with an oxygen8 keyboard & a pismo powerbook.

check out the demo, it's well worth it.

have fun!