[Ludovic Hirlimann]

I'm a camino user and do'nt find anything in Safari that would made me switch, so I'm wondring why do people use Safari instead of camino ?

[Developer]

• Uglier rendering in Camino (HR, buttons, text fields, non latin text)
• Services sometimes don't work in Camino. Spell checker does not work in Camino.
• Google field doesn't work with Umlaut or other special characters in Camino.
• Camino doesn't have any history.
• Downloads need to be x'ed separately in Camino. That's annoying.
• Ugly icons in Camino.
• Bookmarks synchronization in Safari.

[badtz]

• 3rd party plugin [pithhelmet] blocks out ads wonderfully
• bookmark bar [auto-tabs]
• GUI w/brush metal
• snapback

[gorickey]

• Is backed by Apple...not AOL, which means it's developers will NOT be taking a hike anytime soon...

[Ludovic Hirlimann]

Originally posted by gorickey:
• Is backed by Apple...not AOL, which means it's developers will NOT be taking a hike anytime soon...

Camino is not backed by AOL anymore ... and can you say Cyberdog ?

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Ludovic Hirlimann:
Camino is not backed by AOL anymore ... and can you say Cyberdog ?

Camino may NOT be backed by AOL anymore, but, developers are getting the boot...unlike Apple, where developers are actively working on the project day after day (not in their spare time)!

P.S. Long live CyberDog!

[mrmister]

On the other hand, I use Camino because the nightlies are much faster than Safari, it's compatible with more sites and it has robust contextual menus.

Also, type ahead find rocks on toast, and using keywords in the URL field (like g for Google, then what you search for) beats Safari's search implementation.

I also use CaminIcon to change the theme on Camino, so I actually prefer its appearence to Safari.

Safari's font rendering is gorgeous, and I do prefer its download window...but for me, that isn't yet enough.

And once again--it's faster.

[Arkham_c]

I just like Safari's overall polish. I keep Camino in my dock, but I don't use it unless I come across a site that doesn't render in Safari.

[Powaqqatsi]

One word: Speed.

Camino is sooooo much faster. Safari is really slow. There is NOTHING that would make me switch to Safari. Except for this maybe: "Google field doesn't work with Umlaut or other special characters in Camino." But that's not enough .

[cpac]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
One word: Speed.

Camino is sooooo much faster. Safari is really slow. There is NOTHING that would make me switch to Safari. Except for this maybe: "Google field doesn't work with Umlaut or other special characters in Camino." But that's not enough .

This is why you use Safari over Camino?

(The speed differences for me are non-existant, and I prefer OW over either Safari or Camino.)

[Sharky K.]

Safari is much smoother and faster with loading/resizing/scrolling

[sushiism]

i dont, i prefer camino because i dont like safaris toolbar because it lacks the proper aqua customization and also i dislike brushed metal. Plus camino does google image search from the toolbar

[malvolio]

Spellchecking, snapback and a better implementation of tabs.

[gralem]

I don't mean to sound too lazy, but I guess that is it. Safari is the Apple-provided web browser. I like staying close to the standard apple apps. I don't worry about conflicts with other Apple apps (maybe I should, but I don't). It can be upgraded via software update. It's easy.

---gralem

[Mskr]

Actually, Camino is decent, but is much slower for me than Safari. Also, while there are problems with certain things in Safari (alt tags don't show up as tooltips!), site compatibility is much better with Safari, at least for the sites I use.

Actually, the main reason I use Safari is that the tabs implementation kicks butt. Auto-tabs are much cooler than anything else I've seen in this regard. I love it!

Safari 1.0 is a 1.0. It's not perfect; but, it's good, and I'm sure it will get better.

[snerdini]

One word: bookmark syncing. Err...wait. Nevermind.

[wataru]

Camino has some severe bugs involving Japanese text input. Plus I think Safari renders more nicely.

[Eug]

I like Safari, but it's still got too many issues with routers and certain web pages.

My fall back is either Camino or Internet Explorer. Strangely enough, if HAD to choose between the three as my ONLY browser, I'd still take IE, despite its (lack of) speed, and despite the fact that I actually use Safari more now. My number 2 choice would be Camino. It's faster than IE and has less issues than Safari. Indeed, I have all three appz in my dock.

I WANT that choice to be Safari though, since it's the slickest and it's also very fast. Where is Safari 1.1?!?!?

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by cpac:
This is why you use Safari over Camino?

(The speed differences for me are non-existant, and I prefer OW over either Safari or Camino.)

Yep, Camino is easily 3x faster on my Ti867

[cpac]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Yep, Camino is easily 3x faster on my Ti867

So you use Safari?

(my point was simply that you were not responding to the topic of the thread which was "why do you use Safari instead of Camino?" but instead you were providing reasons to use Camino instead of Safari).

Also, I highly doubt the "3x" faster claim. - on my TiBook500 there's very little speed difference, if any...

[Gito]

It seems that is just me that is having the problem.
When I am scrolling up/down in Camino is super slow and when typing in a forum as a right now it's even worse. Does this ever happened to you? I need help this really sucks

[k2director]

I used to love Camino when IE was the only other option. Then Safari came out with tabs, and I swtiched. The rendering looks better to me, and the bookmarks are very easy to manage. I also like synching bookmarks between computers via .Mac.

After reading some comments on Camino's speed in this thread, I downloaded the latest version--and found it was no faster than Safari on my Ti 1Ghz. Plus, I see it still sometimes hogs about 20% of my CPU when it's sitting idle. So it's Safari for me.

[megasad]

For most of the time up until Safari was announced, I used Internet Explorer. I tried to use Chimera, but it was far too slow and would grind to a crawl after a few hours.

Ever since Safari was released, I've been using it full time. In my experience, it is faster than Camino, and this is why I use it. The brushed metal hurt my eyes however, so I did this.

[Tomster]

and also i dislike brushed metal.

There are some Safari utilities that will remove the brushed metal look. Or if you have the developer tools installed, it's just a few control clicks to remove the brushed metal. Search macosxhints for the exact details.

[mikemako]

My Perception:

the method used to bookmark in Safari is better, the implemenation of tabs looks better, the brushed metal looks nice, too. Safari renders pages on a dial-up connection more quickly than Camino. Text looks better in Safari.

[ambush]

Originally posted by gorickey:
• Is backed by Apple...not AOL, which means it's developers will NOT be taking a hike anytime soon...

s/AOL/Mozilla.

And yeah, Camino's a lot faster.

[hudson1]

I was finding Camino to be much faster than Safari but then I realized that in reality, Safari had become quite slow. So, I trashed everything I could that was related to Safari, including the 3rd-party hacks to the hidden features, re-downloaded, re-installed, and now it flies very nicely. Personally, I really can't say which is the faster browser and I suppose that different websites will produce different winners.

Camino is more site-compliant, especially on anything involving HTTPS. It also has a more-useful integration with Keychain.

Safari has a cleaner look and renders some small text much more deftly than Camino.

The bottom line is that I probably use Safari a bit more but by no means exclusively. My two cents, only.

[sushiism]

camino also has more advanced drag and drop, i cand rag links from the page in to open tabs which ido constantly, also like how i can quickly drag something off the window and back on adn that forces it to open in that tab and not a new window.
I tried safari for a bit today and i cant live without these camino features now

[Toyin]

I've been trying to use Camino as my main browser for the last few days and just switched back to Safari. Why?

-Safari is more polished. I've gotten used to the brushed metal, gorgeous rendering, and tabbed interface

-Safari uses less processor power

-Safari can synchronize bookmarks

-Speed. The 2 computers that I use are a 12" PB (640mb) and Dual 500 (1.5gb) both share a 3Mbs cable modem. The speed difference rendering pages is neglible on the 12" and Camino is slightly faster on the Dualie. What is very noticeable is that Safari spanks Camino with cached items (99% of what I view). There's always a pause with Camino when you hit the back button, not so with Safari

-Better navigation with Safari. Camino needs the command up/down arrow key combo to get to the top/bottom of pages.

-Safari launches much faster

-Safari handles multiple tab loads much better.

I keep Camino in my dock, but I prefer Safari.

[DVD Plaza]

Originally posted by cpac:
I highly doubt the "3x" faster claim. - on my TiBook500 there's very little speed difference, if any...

But if you've read any of the threads discussing Camino's speed there seems to be a number of factors (not just CPU speed) that seem to give Camino an edge - for example some say Camino works faster over dialup than Safari does.

I for one definitely find Camino faster than Safari - but my biggest gripe against Safari is primarily the brushed metal GUI, it's horrid.

[Don Pickett]

•Renders pages better
•Renders text better
•Faster on my system

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by cpac:
So you use Safari?

(my point was simply that you were not responding to the topic of the thread which was "why do you use Safari instead of Camino?" but instead you were providing reasons to use Camino instead of Safari).

Also, I highly doubt the "3x" faster claim. - on my TiBook500 there's very little speed difference, if any...

Yes I know, maybe on average that "3x" is too much. But I did do some tests with a stopwatch and for some sites Camino rendered 3 to 4 times !! faster. Really weird. And Camino is indeed much much faster on dialup (and on my 3Mbit DSL).

And no I don't use Safari, the text looking a little bit better doesn't give the advantage to Safari at all and also the faster caching..., I doubt it. And anyway who cares if you have a broadband connection (I'm talking +1Mbit here, other "broadband" is not fast enough).

I must also point out that I always use the latest nightly. Camino 0.7 is probably much slower compared to Safari 1.0, I never tested it and I am not going to test it.

Originally posted by cpac:
This is why you use Safari over Camino?

(The speed differences for me are non-existant, and I prefer OW over either Safari or Camino.)

I guess I didn't read this thouroughly. Sorry about that.

[Superchicken]

Last time I tried camino it still rendered white imput text onto a text feild background that in all other browsers including mozilla is black, but camino changes the background to white, but not the text colour to black.

I can't use safari though X.1 actually can't use Camino either since my 9.2 disc is scratched and I had some partition troubles

[Toyin]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Yes I know, maybe on average that "3x" is too much. But I did do some tests with a stopwatch and for some sites Camino rendered 3 to 4 times !! faster. Really weird. And Camino is indeed much much faster on dialup (and on my 3Mbit DSL).

I have a 3Mbs connection too and most sites I visit load too fast to determine a significant difference with a stop watch. Also both browsers load pages differently which may make one appear to load a page faster.

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
caching..., I doubt it. And anyway who cares if you have a broadband connection (I'm talking +1Mbit here, other "broadband" is not fast enough).

Actually this makes the only noticeable difference. Cached pages in Safari appear instantly. (as in sometimes I don't realize the page has changed) Even with broadband pages can take a fraction of a second to re-load. While this isn't any huge time saver it makes Safari feel faster.

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
I must also point out that I always use the latest nightly. Camino 0.7 is probably much slower compared to Safari 1.0, I never tested it and I am not going to test it.

I'm using the 7/31/03 nightly. I change the builds every few days.

I don't use dial up so I can't honestly evaluate the 2 browsers in those conditions. Any claims that either browser is significantly faster then the other on a fast connection with newer hardware should be taken with a grain of salt. Both of these browsers are fast and are finally equal to Windows IE.

[ambush]

On my new 1.5 MBPS DSL, most pages (talking about pages that are hosted on fast servers, like macnn) load instantly... I mean I hit return, the progres bar animates for 0.5 seconds and the page loads. Even w/o the cache. It's wonderful.

[prokrast]

My biggest gripe with Safari has to be that if my browser window is slightly beyond the left or right bounds of the screen, next time I open a new window its suddenly shifted a bunch of pixels to the right. This usually annoys me enough to quit and use camino...I know its a silly little thing, but it just gets tiresome to move the window back every time. If anyone knows how to fix this that would be terrific...(I have no idea if a lot of people experience this). By the way, I do have the latest version.

-prokrast

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by Toyin:
I have a 3Mbs connection too and most sites I visit load too fast to determine a significant difference with a stop watch. Also both browsers load pages differently which may make one appear to load a page faster.

Appearance is everyting (well in this case...)

But you know for example this forums ot Apple.com, to take to simple exaples, do show a significant difference in loading/rendering/whatever you call it (I mean from when I push enter until the page is fully renderd and ready). Maybe there is something with my Safari install. Maybe someone can point out all the files I need to remove to completely get rid of Safari and reinstall it ??

[DeathMan]

bookmarks are easy, and you can sync between computers. And its apple. So I'm a zealot, so what?

[clarkgoble]

The lack of spellchecking in Camino is the killer. That was why I used Omniweb over Camino back in the day (or under its prior name) When posting to forums like Ars, MacNN, or Slashdot, a little interactive spell checking is simply hard to live without once you had it.

Because of the way Camino handles text fields I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

Were I to find a site I go to that Safari doesn't handle, I'd probably reinstall Camino. But thus far it hasn't happened. I'm sure it has for some, just not me. And I go to lots of sites.

As for speed, I find that the speed bottleneck has never been Safari. Its always been the internet connection or the site. But then I have a cable modem. Those seeing such difference hopefully are running the tests numerous times to eliminate particular oddities that happened at that time.

[Japser]

Spell checking in Camino will eventually be implemented since someone already worked on it.

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151040

But it still needs a lot of work and has low priority at the moment (set for 1.1).

If anybody knows how to pogram they could have a look

[gorgonzola]

I loved and still love Camino; I had to switch because of only one thing.

THE TEXT INPUT!

It's UNBELIEVABLY slow. It's the same in Mozilla and all Mozilla-based browsers. It lags when you type anywhere, although they've improved the location bar and smaller text fields in 0.7. However, if you're typing in a <textarea> and you type a slightly longer bunch of text to the point where a scrollbar appears in the textarea, it becomes unbearably slow to type. It takes at the very least 1 full second to display 1 letter.

So for anyone who uses forums at all, it's completely unusable. Believe me, I liked Camino better otherwise too. It has all the same features, I prefer the rendering (no squashed-ass Geneva 10), and it has one feature Safari doesn't have: bookmark keywords. I had to hack that back into Safari using a rather insane hack, and even then, it's a much less elegant solution.

If they fix the text input, I'll switch back.

Oh, and I don't think Safari has better tab support. In fact, I think it's worse. It has one HUGE flaw: there's no preference to open external links in the same window but in a new tab. So if you're clicking away on links in NetNewsWire or something, you end up with like 15 windows open in Safari but just 1 window with 15 tabs in Camino. Camino wins that one.

[Toyin]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
Oh, and I don't think Safari has better tab support. In fact, I think it's worse. It has one HUGE flaw: there's no preference to open external links in the same window but in a new tab. So if you're clicking away on links in NetNewsWire or something, you end up with like 15 windows open in Safari but just 1 window with 15 tabs in Camino. Camino wins that one.

In general preferences select open links from application in the current window. Your links for other application will open in tabs of the same window