Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Spliff · Sep 12, 2003, 04:11 PM

Is Apple doing enough to compete with Microsoft's Windows Media video codecs? Is Apple's MPEG 4 codec at risk of being ousted by Windows codecs or will electronic companies support both codecs?

Microsoft's Windows Media 9 Spreads in Europe

Microsoft Targets Apple with WM9 Series Arrow

Microsoft Goes To Hollywood

Quicktime Needs Fixing

voodoo · Sep 12, 2003, 04:17 PM

It's a difficult fight and Apple may well go the Way of Netscape in the Netscape vs. IE in this fight of QT vs. WiMP.

Horsepoo!!! · Sep 12, 2003, 05:25 PM

The QuickTime framework rocks.

But unfortunately, the QT Player on Mac and PC sucks balls.

The Mac player is sh!tty...but the PC player is SH!TTY!!! Most people (meaning the PC users) are left with the impression that QT sucks.

Apple is in a tough position. If they make QT awesome on the PC, they're lessening the chances of people to switch. If they make it shitty (like it is now), people are still less likely to switch because they see Apple as a producer of bad software.

Just like WiMP's shitty on Mac and we hate MS for it...PC users hate Apple because QT it just doesn't work well on PCs.

Not enough people see QT as being a good solution which is sad because QT does so much more than Real or MS's software.

Apple also has a hard time making QT better and rewriting the code (into Cocoa maybe?) because they have to insure compatibility with Windows and all the old QT formats.

MusicalTone · Oct 3, 2003, 07:18 PM

MPEG4 isnt Apples format, it is an open standard - developed by the likes of Sony, Dolby and others. It is also the standard for 3g mobile phone audio/video data. It was developed for delivering content over the internet. In the end it will win out - the open standard always does.

jfinete · Oct 3, 2003, 07:42 PM

The main reason why QuickTime sucks on Mac OS X and Windows is because it includes a a lot of legacy classic Mac OS code. QuickTime 6.4 is supposed to fix this.

hmurchison2001 · Oct 3, 2003, 08:29 PM

Don't expect WM9 to make any inroads in Hollywood.

They have made it abundantly clear that they have no desire to let Microsoft Muscle in.

The next thing for Hollywood will be HD-DVD whether it's Red Laser or Blue Laser. WM9 is not really on the radar.

Quicktime is doing fine but I feel it's time to really clean the framework up and document the API extensively. Seeing as how Apple seems to be making small step (ie lineage of QT 6,6.1,6.2 etc) in versions this portends to a fairly large upgrade once QT 7 hits.

I guess what would be nice to see in future QT versions would be

Better reentrant code
Better use of Threading
Better Scaling
More OpenGL support would be nice too.

The "Media Codec" battles are FAR from over. WM9 is controlled by one company. I'd rather cast my lot with Codecs controlled by a consortium.

Eug Wanker · Oct 3, 2003, 11:17 PM

Yeah, the implementation of QT player on Windows is bad.

It's too bad for Apple too, because it looks like they simply blew their headstart for no apparent reason.

Spliff · Oct 3, 2003, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by hmurchison2001:
Don't expect WM9 to make any inroads in Hollywood.

They have made it abundantly clear that they have no desire to let Microsoft Muscle in.

I really hope that's true.

What's your source on this? Is this just your opinion or do you have some insider knowledge?

Truepop · Oct 4, 2003, 01:40 AM

Well Apple has some new Windows programers and doesn't iTunes use a lot of QT? maybe they have cleaned it up for that port and the next version of QT will have the changes.

fado · Oct 4, 2003, 09:26 AM

However, the MediaPlayer has been working very hard to catch up because Microsoft lost the battle to be the media standard. Now it is trying to pull every bell and whistle to appear superior because Microsot is officially second class for its media status.

Quicktime MPEG-4 is chosen as the media standard.

MusicalTone · Oct 4, 2003, 10:26 AM

Maybee work on QT for windows is what is holding up iTunes for Win?

I like quicktime, although on my PB (1Ghz 15" SD) it is a bit slow to start sometimes and I get a "white out".

Sounds like it is indeed in need of a re-write.

Vi0 · Oct 5, 2003, 04:38 AM

I really disklike Quicktime on both mac and pc because it has no damn codecs. It's amazing how many movies Quicktime can't play. The free players like mplayer and VLC just smash anything that Quicktime can offer in playback (besides browser integration) and can even play windows media and realmedia video and streaming.

WJMoore · Oct 5, 2003, 06:52 AM

In the end it will win out - the open standard always does. [/B]

What, like Ogg Vorbis?

thePurpleGiant · Oct 5, 2003, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by WJMoore:
What, like Ogg Vorbis?

No no! Like Internet Explorer's rendering engine...I mean, uh, MS.NET - uh, ASP...

Person Man · Oct 5, 2003, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Vi0:
I really disklike Quicktime on both mac and pc because it has no damn codecs. It's amazing how many movies Quicktime can't play. The free players like mplayer and VLC just smash anything that Quicktime can offer in playback (besides browser integration) and can even play windows media and realmedia video and streaming.

Well, consider that Windows Media codecs are proprietary to Microsoft (meaning that VLC and mplayer had to reverse-engineer them), and Real Player codecs are proprietary to Real (same thing as with WMP), and that the majority of the "other" codecs out there are/were bastardized versions of Microsoft codecs so that people can pirate movies...

Some of the better open source codecs do offer Quicktime integration, but you'll NEVER see Quicktime be able to play WMP files or RealMedia files.

Uncle Skeleton · Oct 5, 2003, 01:20 PM

never say never. The divx boys wrote their own component to parse "avi" files, which means it is possible to write 3rd party components to add file parsing abilities to quicktime. It's not inconceivable that someone would take the ffmpeg file parsers and write a few more quicktime components. But I don't know of anyone who is seriously working on this.

and ViO: try installing the codecs from 3ivx.com and divx.com and see if you can't play most of your movies now. Also, the open source players can't play the latest versions of WMV (since about 2 years) or RM (since about 6 years). I know it goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway: it's not constructive to sit and bitch about what you think a piece of software can't do. It is constructive to bring examples of what it can't do, and often either someone will show you how it works or someone will be able to add that functionality or fix a bug.

Thain Esh Kelch · Oct 5, 2003, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by jfinete:
The main reason why QuickTime sucks on Mac OS X and Windows is because it includes a a lot of legacy classic Mac OS code. QuickTime 6.4 is supposed to fix this.

UhH... And we have heard the same about this since, what, Quicktime for OSX?

clebin · Oct 5, 2003, 06:45 PM

iTunes for Windows is their best chance of changing this. But it needs to be as good as the Mac version for people to start changing over to MPEG4/AAC and Quicktime.

It all seemed to go wrong when Apple introduced Quicktime Pro. The introduction of free iTunes for Windows only serves to highlight what a pathetic decision they made with Quicktime Pro.

Chris

clarkgoble · Oct 6, 2003, 12:42 PM

Well, consider that Windows Media codecs are proprietary to Microsoft (meaning that VLC and mplayer had to reverse-engineer them),

I thought that originally too. But look carefully. They call the WMP dll on Windows. On the Mac they don't work at all. (Assuming you're talking about WMP9 and not earlier codecs)

KidRed · Oct 6, 2003, 03:38 PM

As much as I hate it, M$ may be closer then we like-

Is WM9 the Future of HDTV?

Joe is so enthusiastic about WM9 that he is going to release DVE in WM9 at both 720p/24 and 1080p/24 in January of 2004. The Samsung representatives at the show told me that they are working on a standalone DVD player for the WM9 format that they hope to release by January as well. Keep in mind this means HD-DVD movies. It is big news. Microsoft is leaping out in front of the HD-DVD fray, and, unless the others move quickly, Microsoft could win the HD-DVD war before anyone else has a chance to make their next move.

Considering that Microsoft is also invested in media and cable companies, they can push for more content (HD-DVD movies) and delivery in WM9. A cable or satellite company could significantly increase the number of channels they are offering by going with a complete WM9 system. Another angle for Microsoft is the X-Box. They could potentially turn it into a home media center as a cable box and PVR that use WM9. There are many possibilities for Microsoft here, and considering their obvious commitment to video quality, the results are bound to be good for the consumer.

Naturally, the outcome of all this is based on politics. Will Microsoft's ready to go HD format be stifled by the good old boys who have been in this game from the start, and who probably don't like the idea of a software company - especially Microsoft - stealing their thunder? It will undoubtedly be a fight. I wish they would put it on HBO.

_

ot-am I the only who hasn't been able to use the fricking 'quote' buttons on MacNN since they changed these boards? I wish they'd fix the vB code buttons