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PubGuy · Sep 13, 2003, 09:20 AM

This news flash from MacNN:

"As anticipated earlier this week, Macromedia has posted its FreeHand MX 11.01 update, which it says "contains fixes for issues identified since the release of FreeHand MX (version 11) and includes product activation." The update requires Mac OS X 10.2.6. Users will need their serial number and Macromedia membership informtion (free). Update: While Macromedia's Web site will accept FreeHandMX serial numbers, it will not accept StudioMX Serial numbers. Macromedia customer service is closed until Monday."

PubGuy · Sep 14, 2003, 12:50 PM

Nobody cares that Product Activation schemes are making their way to OS X ????

OK...just trying to get some dialog from others.

Personally, I don't want to have over a dozen different product activation schemes on my computer for softwar that I have bought and paid for. So If I have to upgrade my hardrive or just reinstall an application, then I have to go back through the vendor again and ask real nice if they would be so kind as to reactivate my software?

What happens with companies like Connectix that get bought out or worse, close their doors. Now what happens to you and your software?

This type of stuff just tees me off -- they screw their own customers by making their life harder thinking that will cut down or stop any annoying piracy. Guess what -- pirates don't care and will still find a way to spoof the vendor's scheme. Look at Windows XP product activation -- there are hundreds of sites that provides cracks for that (if someone is interested).

In the mean time, the customer (99.5% or more of the installed base) is the one that gets screwed and inconvienced. It just doesn't justify it to me and I won't by software utilizing these schemes. There is always more than one application that will do the same thing (look at the TurboTax feasco versus TaxCut last year...Intuit pissed off a bunch of customers that instead moved to TaxCut).

It's bad business pissing off your customer base.

>> RANT OVER. DONE <<

voodoo · Sep 14, 2003, 01:42 PM

Oh I *hate* product activation. Detest it. Loath it.

Unfortunately some exec thought it was a brilliant idea. Bastards!

voodoo · Sep 15, 2003, 04:39 AM

Why do people like being treated like this? (I am assuming the silence is because of people being ok with the whole product activation scheme)

It won't stop piracy, it will merely make things more inconvenient for average users.

mishap · Sep 15, 2003, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
Why do people like being treated like this? (I am assuming the silence is because of people being ok with the whole product activation scheme)

It won't stop piracy, it will merely make things more inconvenient for average users.

Sure, I'm ok with it.
Really, I am. It isnt really as inconvenient as people make it out to be.

But, Whatever. i dont want to start a flame war so... "damn, this sucks!"

Millennium · Sep 15, 2003, 09:22 AM

Good to know. I can now add FreeHand to the list of products I will be avoiding until they switch back to a more ethical antipiracty scheme.

Mrjinglesusa · Sep 15, 2003, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Good to know. I can now add FreeHand to the list of products I will be avoiding until they switch back to a more ethical antipiracty scheme.

How does this have anything to do with ethics? A software maker has every right to use whatever methods they feel are necessary to curb piracy. How is it "unethical" for them to require product activation? The people you should get mad at are the software pirates out there who think they should get something for nothing when everyone else is paying for it. *They* are the ones who force software vendors to do this.

icruise · Sep 15, 2003, 02:29 PM

Nobody is being "forced" to use product activation. As someone has already said, its actual effect on piracy will probably be minimal. It may not be "unethical" per se, but it isn't a good idea either.

voodoo · Sep 15, 2003, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Mrjinglesusa:
How does this have anything to do with ethics? A software maker has every right to use whatever methods they feel are necessary to curb piracy. How is it "unethical" for them to require product activation? The people you should get mad at are the software pirates out there who think they should get something for nothing when everyone else is paying for it. *They* are the ones who force software vendors to do this.

Unethical? Well - impolite anyway for it assumes automatically that you the buyer of the software is a thief. Inconvenient because you may not always have access to the software you bought even if you hold the original CDs because the software maker's server may be down.

Pirates on the other hand will hack, crack or obtain unlocked versions of the software in question. No sweat off their brow.

voodoo · Sep 15, 2003, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Icruise:
Nobody is being "forced" to use product activation.

I thought the idea was that you were forced to use it in order to use the software you bought.

GENERAL_SMILEY · Sep 15, 2003, 05:03 PM

One interesting thing, though, is that as of today I have seen no crack/keygen (or serial obviously) for the the new Macromedia Studio software.

Been out for awhile piratically speaking, at least for those who sail under the black flag - yo, ho, ho, and a bottle of rum etc... Of course I'm not on the scene, not even a first mate, so who knows.

Personally it's been awhile since I have been able to stomach the appallingly sh1t software Macromedia has foisted upon it's Mac victims, so this is another nail in an already well buried coffin for me.

mishap · Sep 15, 2003, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by GENERAL_SMILEY:

Personally it's been awhile since I have been able to stomach the appallingly sh1t software Macromedia has foisted upon it's Mac victims, so this is another nail in an already well buried coffin for me.

There are still other ways of getting free Macromedia software...like doing work for them

I cant wait for my copy of StudioMX 04 to arrive *grin*

Wevah · Sep 15, 2003, 06:03 PM

I think it sucks.

Millennium · Sep 17, 2003, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Mrjinglesusa:
How does this have anything to do with ethics? A software maker has every right to use whatever methods they feel are necessary to curb piracy.

The ends do not justify the means. This has been backed p in many modern legal systems.

How is it "unethical" for them to require product activation?

Three ways some to mind, among others:

1) Privacy. Or rather, lack thereof. Product Activation grabs information from and about your computer and you without your consent, and does this on a repeated basis. This data can be used to track usage habits. Whether or not it actually is currently used to track usage habits is irrelevant; it is unnecessary to combat piracy and therefore should not be collected.
2) Innocence, or rather, lack of presumption thereof. If it cannot prove that you are pirating the software (i.e. by using a pirated registration number) it assumes you are guilty. This is not technically illegal, because the software companies are not officially law enforcement, but it violates the moral principles upon which many legal systems, and even the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, are based.
3) Fair Use: what fair use? I'm not talking about piracy, I'm talking about legitimate copying by a legitimate user for legitimate purposes. Not allowed here, at least not without intervention on the part of the software vendor. That's not good enough.

An antipiracy method which violates any of these three principles is unethical, and should be avoided at all costs. Effective means of fighting piracy exist which do not violate these principles, and these should be used instead.

The people you should get mad at are the software pirates out there who think they should get something for nothing when everyone else is paying for it. *They* are the ones who force software vendors to do this.

No, they are the excuse used by software vendors to use unnecessarily intrusive methods which don't prevent piracy, but do intrude on the legitimate rights of legitimate users. Rights which the companies which uses these methods despise, because it's less profitable for them.

There are ethical means of combating software piracy. Activation is not one of them.

Mrjinglesusa · Sep 17, 2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Millennium:
The ends do not justify the means. This has been backed p in many modern legal systems.

How has this been backed by modern legal systems? MS has been doing it for years and I have yet to see any legal arguments against it.

Three ways some to mind, among others:

1) Privacy. Or rather, lack thereof. Product Activation grabs information from and about your computer and you without your consent, and does this on a repeated basis. This data can be used to track usage habits. Whether or not it actually is currently used to track usage habits is irrelevant; it is unnecessary to combat piracy and therefore should not be collected.

Product activation doesn't necessarily collect information about *you*. It collects specific HARDWARE information. What do you care if they know your Ethernet address or amount of RAM?

2) Innocence, or rather, lack of presumption thereof. If it cannot prove that you are pirating the software (i.e. by using a pirated registration number) it assumes you are guilty. This is not technically illegal, because the software companies are not officially law enforcement, but it violates the moral principles upon which many legal systems, and even the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, are based.

This is a weak argument at best. No one is assuming anyone is guilty of anything. They are protecting their intellectual property by making sure you can't use the software on more than one computer. Read the license agreement. It doesn't give you the right to install on all of your home computers but this is another argument.

3) Fair Use: what fair use? I'm not talking about piracy, I'm talking about legitimate copying by a legitimate user for legitimate purposes. Not allowed here, at least not without intervention on the part of the software vendor. That's not good enough.

What legitimate copying do you need. You can make a copy of your install CD for backup and protection of your investment. Product activation doesn't stop that. Want to copy to your laptop for the road? Read the license agreement and buy another copy. When you open and install the software it clearly states you can only use it on one computer.

An antipiracy method which violates any of these three principles is unethical, and should be avoided at all costs. Effective means of fighting piracy exist which do not violate these principles, and these should be used instead.

What effective methods do you suggest? Every method out there I have seen simply DOES NOT WORK. Product activation (tying software to a specific hardware configuration) DOES work.

No, they are the excuse used by software vendors to use unnecessarily intrusive methods which don't prevent piracy, but do intrude on the legitimate rights of legitimate users. Rights which the companies which uses these methods despise, because it's less profitable for them.

Again, if you are doing nothing illegal, how is it intrusive? And why would it bother you to call the company and get things worked out if something goes wrong or you buy another computer?