[ambush]

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/pinke...es/004079.html

Sucks, heh?

It really needs more devs.. hmm.

[Developer]

Who is in charge of it now anyway? There are may patches that appear to be ready but don't get included for some reason.

[IronPen]

I still pull out the old Camino now and then. For a long time it was my browser of choice, and it showed so much promise, but as this note shows, development has slowed to a crawl. And with Apple's release of Safari, the competition is getting left in the dust. Safari incorporates a lot of nice features and the interface is clean and the preferences are nicely organized. I also like the menus.

Unfortunately, Camino will probably fall behind without continued, consistent development. I think Mozilla and Firebird will squeeze it out. Both offer more features over the current Camino and if you get the Pinstripe theme they will look much more OS X-like. They aren't great, and both are bloated and take forever to launch, but they're seeing consistent development.

[gorickey]

That does suck....



Now I've lost Meteorologist last month and now Camino it seems for awhile!

[CharlesS]

Camino would have been a great browser... it had some absolutely essential features that Safari doesn't, such as keywords and type-ahead find (in the latest nightlies). If they had simply made the latest nightlies stable, it would have been great.

Oh well... long live OmniWeb!

[smeger]

Oddly enough, I came to browse MacNN while pulling the current Camino CVS in order to do some work on it, and saw this thread.

Open-source projects don't just die, ya know. All it takes is developers and people working on the bug list (you don't neeed to be a dev to do this).

Some resources (all links are bookmarkable):

• Build instructions for Camino from CVS
• Camino Development Page
• Camino bugs with activity in the past week
• CVS checkins in the past week
• Camino mailing list subscription
• Jasper Hauser's page with many additional links
• Bugs to be fixed for Camino 0.8

I hope this helps people. I've joined the mailing list and the discussion on it has gotten me excited enough to at least grab the code and get it compiling.

[TheIceMan]

smeger:

[bmedina]

It's no more dead than it has been the past few months. He's just explaining why he hasn't had time lately to work on it, but there are several other (less vocal) developers contributing.

[gatorparrots]

Safari has not unseated Camino as my browser of choice. It's still too young and buggy to be my default. The build of Camino I am using has all the features I need and is fast and stable. I have no real interest in Firebird or Mozilla, so I'm with Camino 100%.

[Catfish_Man]

Is it just me, or is the latest Camino build a lot faster than the ones from a few weeks ago (or even a few days ago)? Part of that is from the DNS checkin, but after that there seems to have been another speedup.

[fortepianissimo]

According to the note there should be a 0.7.5 version? I'm running the 09/17 nightly, and I suppose this is the latest one?

I'd LOVE to see Camino to continue - it is still the BEST browser, on any platform!

[sushiism]

camino better bloody well continue, its amazing. I have no intention of using safari seen as A)not mozilla B)brushed f-ing metal C)cant hold scroll wheel and roll up/down to go back and forwards

[Ludovic Hirlimann]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:
According to the note there should be a 0.7.5 version? I'm running the 09/17 nightly, and I suppose this is the latest one?

I'd LOVE to see Camino to continue - it is still the BEST browser, on any platform!

Yes because mike shut down the machine that builds the nightly (weather conditions). This will resume on tuesday.

[dave haas]

Hi.

If you'd like to use a version of Camino with some of the improvements that are sitting in bugzilla waiting for the next 3 months to be applied, you can download it from my site.

I'll provide an updated build every weekend. These builds are NOT OFFICIAL - things might break, things might explode, etc, etc, etc.

The differences between this build and the current "official" build are . . .
* MathML support
* updated bookmark system
* various other cleanups

[malvolio]

Thanks, dave! Downloading the latest Camino build now.
So, who do I notify if things "explode"?

[dave haas]

Bugs/comments get added to the Mozillazine Camino Forums.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by dave haas:
Hi.

If you'd like to use a version of Camino with some of the improvements that are sitting in bugzilla waiting for the next 3 months to be applied, you can download it from my site.

I'll provide an updated build every weekend. These builds are NOT OFFICIAL - things might break, things might explode, etc, etc, etc.

The differences between this build and the current "official" build are . . .
* MathML support
* updated bookmark system
* various other cleanups

Not to mention type-ahead find! The most useful browser feature ever.

This build looks a lot nicer interface-wise than 0.7 did, as well.

This build looks very nice. I'm hooked on OmniWeb right now, but I could see myself using this, and would probably use it before Safari. They do need to do something about the Delete key going back a page, though. That is annoying.

[bmedina]

I tried running your build, but it says that my bookmarks file is invalid and doesn't load any of them. Any ideas?

[Person Man]

Originally posted by sushiism:
C)cant hold scroll wheel and roll up/down to go back and forwards

Scroll wheel works just fine in Safari.

[dave haas]

bmedina:

Here's the quickest thing to try:

1st: Go find ~/Library/Application Support/Chimera. Move it to your desktop.
2nd: Start the new Camino build.

Make sure it starts. Then you've got a couple of options. To import your old bookmarks, go to the Bookmarks Menu - Import Bookmarks - Select a File . and use the file picker to get the bookmarks.xml file out of the Chimera/default/(random string) directory you just moved to the desktop. Go into the bookmark manager and rearrange at will.

If THAT doesn't work - please e-mail me a copy of the bookmarks.xml file.

If you then quit camino, you can copy things like cookieperm.txt, etc from the Chimera folder on your desktop into the new ~/Library/Application Support/Camino folder.

Hope this helps.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by bmedina:
I tried running your build, but it says that my bookmarks file is invalid and doesn't load any of them. Any ideas?

I just fixed a bug in the profile migration code, so perhaps you could try a new copy.

If you do that - make sure you delete the folder ~/Library/Appliation Support/Camino before launching the program. Everything should (fingers crossed) import correctly then.

[bmedina]

Originally posted by dave haas:
I just fixed a bug in the profile migration code, so perhaps you could try a new copy.

If you do that - make sure you delete the folder ~/Library/Appliation Support/Camino before launching the program. Everything should (fingers crossed) import correctly then.

Worked perfectly! Thanks for the effort. The new bookmarks manager is pretty nice.

[fortepianissimo]

Originally posted by dave haas:
I just fixed a bug in the profile migration code, so perhaps you could try a new copy.

If you do that - make sure you delete the folder ~/Library/Appliation Support/Camino before launching the program. Everything should (fingers crossed) import correctly then.

Thank you so much for providing the latest build. One question: I couldn't find where to turn off the animated GIF anymore... if my memory is correct I was able to turn them off before?

Thanks!

[dave haas]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:
Thank you so much for providing the latest build. One question: I couldn't find where to turn off the animated GIF anymore... if my memory is correct I was able to turn them off before?

Hmmmm . . . I'll have to look at this more.

[theolein]

Originally posted by dave haas:
Hi.

If you'd like to use a version of Camino with some of the improvements that are sitting in bugzilla waiting for the next 3 months to be applied, you can download it from my site.

I'll provide an updated build every weekend. These builds are NOT OFFICIAL - things might break, things might explode, etc, etc, etc.

The differences between this build and the current "official" build are . . .
* MathML support
* updated bookmark system
* various other cleanups

Thanks Dave. I must say that it hardly worked at all on my machine, for some reason. It had problems loading images, seemed to hang in BeachBall mode on most sites and those images that did load were sometimes drawn over text or just anywhere in the frame or parts of it. Strange. I'm running 10.2.8, in case that's a part of the problem.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by theolein:
Thanks Dave. I must say that it hardly worked at all on my machine, for some reason. It had problems loading images, seemed to hang in BeachBall mode on most sites and those images that did load were sometimes drawn over text or just anywhere in the frame or parts of it. Strange. I'm running 10.2.8, in case that's a part of the problem.

Yea, I missed the 10.2.8 debacle, so I'm not sure if I can be much help.

Could you post some of the websites you were having problems with?

Dave

[theolein]

Originally posted by dave haas:
Yea, I missed the 10.2.8 debacle, so I'm not sure if I can be much help.

Could you post some of the websites you were having problems with?

Dave

The sites were:
http://slashdot.org --flawless and faster than Safari
http://www.apple.com --desaster, images that did load rendered all over the place and the rest mostly just hung.
http://www.zdnet.com --didn't even get as far as rendering anything, just hung.

Wonder if it anything to do with plugins, or has some ABI changed in 10.2.8, that's thrown everything out the window?

[fortepianissimo]

Originally posted by theolein:
The sites were:
http://slashdot.org --flawless and faster than Safari
http://www.apple.com --desaster, images that did load rendered all over the place and the rest mostly just hung.
http://www.zdnet.com --didn't even get as far as rendering anything, just hung.

Wonder if it anything to do with plugins, or has some ABI changed in 10.2.8, that's thrown everything out the window?

FWIW, I have no problems browsing these sites, using the 09/27 build Dave provided, under 10.2.8.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by theolein:
The sites were:
http://slashdot.org --flawless and faster than Safari
http://www.apple.com --desaster, images that did load rendered all over the place and the rest mostly just hung.
http://www.zdnet.com --didn't even get as far as rendering anything, just hung.

Well, I didn't have any problem with these sites on 10.2.6. And the fact that fortepianissimo didn't either on 10.2.8 makes me think it was a temporary network glitch on your end OR you happen to have one of the Mac models totally f*@#d up by 10.2.8.

My apologies

[fortepianissimo]

So it looks like the nightly is back at the usual place now - but it doesn't have the nice bookmark manager feature that Dave's version has. What's the relationship between these two versions?

[dave haas]

my build is the "official" build PLUS patches that are sitting in bugzilla waiting to be applied.

what you see in my build is what's coming in the official build.

[theolein]

Originally posted by dave haas:
Well, I didn't have any problem with these sites on 10.2.6. And the fact that fortepianissimo didn't either on 10.2.8 makes me think it was a temporary network glitch on your end OR you happen to have one of the Mac models totally f*@#d up by 10.2.8.

My apologies

No, I've had no problems with 10.2.8 up until now, so I doubt it's that. I'll give Camino another try some other time.

[derekn]

Latest news on Camino...

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/pinke...es/004144.html

[Ludovic Hirlimann]

Originally posted by derekn:
Latest news on Camino...

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/pinke...es/004144.html

People who thinks they can help are welcomed on board !!

[dave haas]

I posted another updated build of Camino here . Feel free to check it out.

With development picking back up, these patches should make it into the offical builds soon. Come help out!

[fortepianissimo]

Originally posted by dave haas:
I posted another updated build of Camino here . Feel free to check it out.

With development picking back up, these patches should make it into the offical builds soon. Come help out!

Hey Dave I really love your build - the bookmark manager stuff is cool. Keep up the good works!

[TheDoctor]

Thanks for the newest build, Dave. I've been mostly using Safari, but I think I'll be giving Camino a try after playing with it.

[passmaster16]

Yeah, I'm glad to see the project continue. I still use Camino as my primary browser. So far my only complaints are no built in spell check and no auto-complete forms. I really think if they could incorporate this into the app, it would become an even more viable alternative to Safari. I like Safari but there are still some sites that won't work with it so I end up resorting to Camino anyway. I've been happy with the app to this point and can't wait for future releases.

[DekuDekuplex]

I just downloaded your update on Saturday, October 4, and it looks great! However, I encountered a problem when switching character codings.

Specifically, I check my e-mail on Yahoo!®, and have the Lime Green color scheme selected there. However, when I switch the character coding from Western (ISO Latin 1) to Japanese (EUC), the color scheme changes to the default Classic Blue.

For some reason, this problem does not happen in Mozilla 4 or Internet Explorer:mac 5.2. (On the other hand, Safari 1.0 v85 suddenly quits when I change the character set.)

Can this problem be fixed relatively easily?

DekuDekuplex

Originally posted by dave haas:
I posted another updated build of Camino here . Feel free to check it out.

With development picking back up, these patches should make it into the offical builds soon. Come help out!

[Mike S.]

Are these builds stable?

Has anyone addressed the ugly font rendering? A lot of the smaller fonts are very aliased looking and it's annoying to me.

The same sized fonts in Safari and OmniWeb look smooth so it's not my OS settings and setting a minimum font size to get around isn't an option since that messes up the design of some sites.

I recall at one time, early Chimeras were using the same font smoothing as OW 4 but they turned it off do to render speed issues vs. Carbon style smoothing.

Is that the problem? Haven't the speed issues been fixed by now?

[dave haas]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:

Specifically, I check my e-mail on Yahoo!®, and have the Lime Green color scheme selected there. However, when I switch the character coding from Western (ISO Latin 1) to Japanese (EUC), the color scheme changes to the default Classic Blue.

Hmm . . . since I'm limited in the languages I read, I've never seen this problem.

If you download a recent nightly build of Mozilla or an official nightly build of Camino, do you see the same problem?

If not - can you send me an e-mail at getridofstuff2003@yahoo.com which would have Japanese (EUC) characters in it? I'll see what happens.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by Mike S.:
Are these builds stable?

Yep.

Has anyone addressed the ugly font rendering? A lot of the smaller fonts are very aliased looking and it's annoying to me.

I don't think anybody's touched the font rendering code in a long time. So if you've looked at a recent nightly build of Camino, and you found the fonts ugly, you'll still find them ugly.

[dave haas]

I put up a new unofficial build of Camino here, if anyone's interested.

[DekuDekuplex]

Sorry for the delay ... I had planned to use my PowerBook at home over the Columbus Day weekend, but didn't have time because of some extra work that rolled in.

I'll try to download the nightly builds that you suggested, test them out, and then reply when possible, probably over the coming weekend.

--DekuDekuplex

Originally posted by dave haas:
Hmm . . . since I'm limited in the languages I read, I've never seen this problem.

If you download a recent nightly build of Mozilla or an official nightly build of Camino, do you see the same problem?

If not - can you send me an e-mail at getridofstuff2003@yahoo.com which would have Japanese (EUC) characters in it? I'll see what happens.

[Japser]

The latest camino nightly build is working perfectly again:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.o...ightly/latest/
We had some serious issues due to big patches that landed on the moz trunk last week. Just wanted to let every body know.

Mean while the Camino team is still looking for other interested c, c++ and unix coders. We already have two new great developers (Ludo and Josh) but we are happy with all the extra help we can get.

[fortepianissimo]

Originally posted by Japser:
The latest camino nightly build is working perfectly again:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.o...ightly/latest/
We had some serious issues due to big patches that landed on the moz trunk last week. Just wanted to let every body know.

Mean while the Camino team is still looking for other interested c, c++ and unix coders. We already have two new great developers (Ludo and Josh) but we are happy with all the extra help we can get.

Thank you for letting us know jasper. One question though - I tried the latest nightly a few days ago, but since i've been using dave's experimental build for the past few weeks, i found that all my bookmarks did not show up in the official nightly.

After a little investigation I found that the official nightly uses Chimera directory for storing preferences etc., but dave's uses Camino directory. Also the bookmarks.plist produced by dave's version seems not compatible with the official version.

I understand that it's probably not a valid concern for the camino team. But just want to know why the two versions are using different dir and different format for bookmarks. And... is there any interim solution for this problem?


Thanks a lot!

[Ludovic Hirlimann]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:


After a little investigation I found that the official nightly uses Chimera directory for storing preferences etc., but dave's uses Camino directory. Also the bookmarks.plist produced by dave's version seems not compatible with the official version.

I understand that it's probably not a valid concern for the camino team. But just want to know why the two versions are using different dir and different format for bookmarks. And... is there any interim solution for this problem?


Thanks a lot!

For the file format this should be fixed soon, for the dir rename it will take longer because it does not affect "normal" users who do not care about what the pref file name is.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:
is there any interim solution for this problem?

In my builds, you can go to Bookmarks->Export Bookmarks menu, and write out a file you can then import into the official builds.

IIRC, you have to go to Camino->Import Bookmarks menu in the official builds.

Hopefully soon the official builds will move to the new bookmark system, which should make things easier.

[Oneota]

Here's a major annoyance -

There's no way to turn off the header/footer printing in Camino. We use a web-based system to print our student reports, and at the moment, we don't have a decent Mac browser to do it on.

Safari doesn't respect page breaks, so multiple-page reports run together.

IE takes minutes to generate the reports that the others can do in seconds.

Camino has no way to disable headers/footers in printing, so these official reports have an ugly URL/Page Number/etc on the top and bottom.

Camino (or any mozilla-based browser) would be perfect if there were some way to disable this unnecessary printing.

It's not like there's just a lack of a UI for this feature - editing the prefs files to match how they look on PCs when header/footer printing is turned off has no effect, so the feature is simply GONE on the Mac. What's up with that?!?

[fortepianissimo]

Originally posted by dave haas:
In my builds, you can go to Bookmarks->Export Bookmarks menu, and write out a file you can then import into the official builds.

IIRC, you have to go to Camino->Import Bookmarks menu in the official builds.

Hopefully soon the official builds will move to the new bookmark system, which should make things easier.

Thx dave - in fact I've just tried your Oct 18 build, and found a minor problem: before I was able to use individual type-ahead search word in each individual tab: i.e., if I search for apple in one tab, and switch to another tab, and search for 'banana', and then switch back to the first tab, if I hit cmd-g, I can keep searching 'apple'. But with the latest build, that was gone.

Since I need to do research across multiple tabs often, losing this functionality is a bit disruptive.