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Wet Jimmy · Oct 12, 2003, 07:03 PM

I'm currently sitting here waiting for a 40MB download to finish, and it got me to wondering - what do you think the chances are that later versions of Safari will have some kind of built in download management / acceleration functionality, ala Download Accelerator on the PC or (for me) the far less succesful Speed Download 2 for Mac?

I've TRIED Speed Download 2, but it seems to hit and miss and far more hassle than it's worth. DAP, on the other hand, is a BRILLIANT piece of software that no PC owner should be without - but that's the problem, it's PC only.

Currently there are two things stopping me from going Mac full-time - Gaming and Download times. Trivial issues to be sure, but enough to mean I have to keep two machines (I have a 17" Powerbook and a do-it-yourself PC which I'd love to trade up for a G5).

Anyway, that was my random musing for the day - Any thoughts?

Chuckit · Oct 12, 2003, 07:17 PM

There are more download managers than just that. A quick poke on VersionTracker turned up three more.

Wet Jimmy · Oct 12, 2003, 08:01 PM

Thanks for that. Do you have any experience with Axelerate, by any chance?

proton · Oct 12, 2003, 08:34 PM

Whatever you do, please do not use the download acceleration feature of these programs.

The servers you're connecting to to download the files are trying to share out the available bandwidth equally, and you using a download accelerator generally will not speed up your download at all. It also causes a great deal more stress on the servers than just using a normal client, and when most of these sites are providing a free service to you, we don't want to be causing any more strain on their limited resources.

Using the download manager part of these programs is usually fine, if you can turn off the "accelerator" (aka, "open heaps of connections under the impression it'd have to get faster") modes.

- proton

Xeo · Oct 12, 2003, 09:29 PM

Safari won't ever have the acceleration feature. Apple would be criticized heavily for it.

However, I like download accelerators. I use iGetter to download files from my school computer to home, and back. It's the easiest way to max out the bandwidth in either direction to get files the fastest possible. If I didn't use it, I would only get 40-50 K/s when transferring files, but by using it I max out the DSL at 200 K/s. It's nice to get files 4 times faster.

I don't use it for general downloading. Sometimes, if I come across a file that is several hundred MB, I will use it. I like being able to pause and start it. But for the most part, web downloads aren't large enough for me to worry about it. If was on a modem, I'd use it all the time for the pause/restart feature. That's the feature Apple should implement.

I'm moving this thread to Software, as it's off topic here.

Wet Jimmy · Oct 12, 2003, 10:39 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by proton:
and you using a download accelerator generally will not speed up your download at all.[/QUOTE

I'd like to know how you would justify that statement - there is a VERY real improvement through using a download manager (at least from a Windows perspective - as mentioned I've had little luck on the Mac). I'm regularly downloading files from 400MB to 1GB in size, and I can tell you that using Download Accelerator makes an incredible difference. My time is valuable, and aside from the speed advantage, the ability of being able to pause and resume the download is invaluable (which I know is a point that you're NOT arguing).

At anyrate, download accelerators work, and I can see your point from an Administrator's view - but from an end user, who pays for premium service and doesn't want to waste time, they are a necessity.

Sage · Oct 12, 2003, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by Xeo:
If was on a modem, I'd use it all the time for the pause/restart feature. That's the feature Apple should implement.

I fully agree.

I'm on a modem, and I've learned to live with the wait - And since it's my parents who are paying for it, I won't complain. However, having the ability to pause/restart would be an awesome feature to have (especially since our ISP has a habit of disconnecting every few hours).

Wet Jimmy · Oct 12, 2003, 11:21 PM

I think it's their way of ensuring you don't tie up their bandwidth by attempting large downloads.

Chuckit · Oct 13, 2003, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Wet Jimmy:
Thanks for that. Do you have any experience with Axelerate, by any chance?

None with Axelerate, but I used to use iGetter all the time back on OS 9, and it worked quite well for me. (I use curl from the command line now that OS X has brought us its UNIXy goodies.)

proton · 02:21 AM

Originally posted by Wet Jimmy:
I'd like to know how you would justify that statement - there is a VERY real improvement through using a download manager (at least from a Windows perspective - as mentioned I've had little luck on the Mac). I'm regularly downloading files from 400MB to 1GB in size, and I can tell you that using Download Accelerator makes an incredible difference. My time is valuable, and aside from the speed advantage, the ability of being able to pause and resume the download is invaluable (which I know is a point that you're NOT arguing).

At anyrate, download accelerators work, and I can see your point from an Administrator's view - but from an end user, who pays for premium service and doesn't want to waste time, they are a necessity.

I base it on the fact that most servers aren't throttling your connection speed in any way. Most servers are giving you as much of the bandwidth that they have available at the time you're downloading. If you're downloading from a server during peak usage time, your download will be slower than at other times. The amount of bandwidth that the server gives you is a fair share of what's available.

Another obnoxious thing that many download accelerators do is not stop attempting additional connections when their second, third, fourth etc connection is refused. Instead, many download accelerators just start hitting the server with hundreds of connection attempts per minute, which as you can imagine places a much higher load on the server in question.

What I don't understand is that for a free service, what makes people think they should get special treatment? Remember that most of the downloads for Mac aren't from the sort of PC style site where they provide 20 ads before downloading, but most sites are operated by mirror operators for free. In fact, some sites operate free of advertising too. If you're paying a site for a "premium download" then they should be able to provide that over one connection or you're being ripped off by that site.

An interesting article on this topic was published on Insanely Great Mac last year, have a read of it. Remember that many of the downloads for Macs are provided by sites like AusMac (they're one of two mirrors for MacGameFiles.com).

- proton

Peter · Oct 13, 2003, 05:42 AM

The ability to resume and pause downloads

KidRed · Oct 13, 2003, 09:39 AM

The chances are greater the more that people ask Apple for it. I've left feedback asking for a download manager after every build release for Safari. I mostly want to be able to specify where I want files downloaded. As a web-design/graphic artist who gets graphic content from clients, I need the ability to place their content in their local assigned directories. Instead, Safari downloads to 1 spot, so I either categorize and put away after downloading the content, or I by hand drag and drop onto their folder.

Also, I wouldn't mind having the IE refresh button. I've lost or trashed files that I would love to be able to click a refresh button to re-download the file. Instead, I have to find the file online and then re-download. That's frustrating if you came across a site via a few links and don't know where to start.

So if you want a download manager, tell Apple.

JB72 · Oct 13, 2003, 11:17 AM

Download Wizard

Sarc · Oct 13, 2003, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by JB72:
Download Wizard

A very good, lightweight app. it can pause/resume, very easy to use, and with very little CPU overhead.

I hear that the Pro version (which needs to be paid for) includes multiple connections (aka. "the accelerator function")

IronPen · Oct 13, 2003, 07:28 PM

Has anyone actually paid for Download Wizard? I like the app, but I'm reluctant to pay for it unless I feel it is really going to make a difference in my browsing experience. Does it speed up downloads over a modem? I know the new Safari in Panther allows you to resume a download if you want to.

One of the things I like about Firebird on OS X is the plug-in to allow the download progress in the bottom of the browser window so that I don't have to constantly switch to the download manager to see where I'm at. It seems this could be added to Safari somehow.