[macintologist]

It is so hard to implement resume downloading? Every single downloading app can resume an HTTP or FTP download if the server supports it and most of them do. There are still lots of modem users out there whose connections might be unstable.

The download window lacks a key feature: telling you how much time is left. Hello???? Why hasn't anyone made such a big deal about this. It's like Safari was designed for people with connections so fast that they WATCH the download progress the whole way.

Why can't Safari download a webpage WITH its images and sound etc like IE 5 did? Right now it only downloads the source html file. How useful is that for most ordinary computer users?

Ok I'm not some geek who's screaming OMG SAFARI LACKS DHTML 3.1 SUPPORT OMGFG. I mean these are features that we've seen in every other browser for a while and Safari has been out long enough and received enough beta-testing an feedback for them to put it in..right?

By the way, didn't Safari copy a lot of features from Camino (Chimera at the time)? Steve Jobs at MWSF 03 was touting the bookmarking features of Safari and how when you said "add bookmark" it has a popup window asking you where and to rename it. That is almost straight from Camino. Example:

Safari:


Camino:

[off/lang]

Adding a bookmark wasn't really what jobs was touting. He was talking more about the bookmarks collections, and the stuff that is around when you click "Show All Bookmarks"

Also, I thought that if the server supported it, safari did show you how long it will take to complete a download.

In regards to resuming downloads, I don't think many browsers actually do it. There are quite a few dedicated downloading apps that do, though.

(And, as you are using Panther, you aren't using the same version of Camino that was out when Safari was released, and Camino's bookmarking system has has been redesigned since to be more Sarafi like.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Camino, and I'm looking forward to .8, and Safari isn't perfect by any stretch, but I think your criticisms are unfounded.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by off/lang:
Adding a bookmark wasn't really what jobs was touting. He was talking more about the bookmarks collections, and the stuff that is around when you click "Show All Bookmarks"

...

(And, as you are using Panther, you aren't using the same version of Camino that was out when Safari was released, and Camino's bookmarking system has has been redesigned since to be more Sarafi like.)

What are you talking about. I was using Chimera fulltime since OS X 10.1 and I loved how I could rename bookmarks and place them in a folder before they were made (just like in that screenshot I showed you.) Safari completely stole it and I don't know why no one said anything. Well I use Safari now anyways.

Right now its sucking away all of CPU cycles for no reason therefore all the text I'm typing in is delayed and completely annoying (I'm on an 800 Mhz iMac, not an issue though). I'm not loading anything, my other tabs are just MacNN forum threads. This is completely unacceptable for a product beta-tested by so many for so long and now "final product", even going through scrutiny for a major OS upgrade.

[Apfhex]

Originally posted by off/lang:
Also, I thought that if the server supported it, safari did show you how long it will take to complete a download.

In regards to resuming downloads, I don't think many browsers actually do it. There are quite a few dedicated downloading apps that do, though.

While Safari tells you how much of the file is downloaded, there is no time estimate. Not a major deal to me, but I do think it should be there.

As far as resuming, I thought most other browsers did, but maybe I'm wrong. I know IE5 can, and I think Camino can. Safari should also.

When it comes to saving entire websites including images and other content, that always got in my way when using IE, and I could care less if Safari added that feature. There are other apps out there these days that can perform that function.

[cpac]

Originally posted by macintologist:
It is so hard to implement resume downloading?

My guess would be "yes" since no browser i've seen includes it, and since you have to get dedicated downloading applications in order to get the functionality.

The download window lacks a key feature: telling you how much time is left. Hello???? Why hasn't anyone made such a big deal about this. It's like Safari was designed for people with connections so fast that they WATCH the download progress the whole way.

More and more people are on broadband every day. So I guess its like Safari was designed for _dramatic pause_ the future.... More likely, this functionality was not considered critical. (We *are* only at 1.1 afterall)

Why can't Safari download a webpage WITH its images and sound etc like IE 5 did? Right now it only downloads the source html file. How useful is that for most ordinary computer users?

How useful is downloading a webpage *at all* for most ordinary computer users? Seriously - if you need to save what's actually on the page, most people just print, and with OS X's built-in save-to-.pdf, I can see how this feature was not deemed important enough to include in a 1.1 release.

Ok I'm not some geek who's screaming OMG SAFARI LACKS DHTML 3.1 SUPPORT OMGFG. I mean these are features that we've seen in every other browser for a while and Safari has been out long enough and received enough beta-testing an feedback for them to put it in..right?

Wrong. On both counts. Not every browser has these features, and no, Safari has not been out long enough for one to expect it to have the same set of features as IE or Mozilla: the fact that Safari has as many as it does is pretty damn impressive all by itself. I'm sure it will become more feature complete as time goes on, but it honestly is a relatively small project meant to provide Mac users with a basic browser that works (esp. as M$ is no longer developing IE for the Mac). If you want all these extra features, as you pointed out, there are many other browser options available - just use one of them.

By the way, didn't Safari copy a lot of features from Camino (Chimera at the time)? Steve Jobs at MWSF 03 was touting the bookmarking features of Safari and how when you said "add bookmark" it has a popup window asking you where and to rename it. That is almost straight from Camino.

Well besides the developer of Safari being one of the main developers of Chimera, it's unsurprising. Yes those two dialog boxes look very much the same, but as a previous poster pointed out, the "revolutionary" thing about Safari's bookmark organization was the full-page, itunes-ish organization, which Camino has since adopted.

[Ratm]

Originally posted by off/lang:
Adding a bookmark wasn't really what jobs was touting. He was talking more about the bookmarks collections, and the stuff that is around when you click "Show All Bookmarks"

uh yes he did. I remember the crowds reaction and recognized the feature from Camino.

Also, I thought that if the server supported it, safari did show you how long it will take to complete a download.

I find this feature useless since the time can fluctuate do to so many things, its not really accurate.

In regards to resuming downloads, I don't think many browsers actually do it. There are quite a few dedicated downloading apps that do, though.

Who cares how many others use or don't use this feature, its needed in Safari imho and the sooner they get in there the better.

(And, as you are using Panther, you aren't using the same version of Camino that was out when Safari was released, and Camino's bookmarking system has has been redesigned since to be more Sarafi like.)

Its true that they should have never pattern themselves after Safari, bad decision but Apple's Safari would have no identity with out the open source browsers like mozilla & Konqueror which Safari's rendering engine is based on.

[Ratm]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Why can't Safari download a webpage WITH its images and sound etc like IE 5 did? Right now it only downloads the source html file. How useful is that for most ordinary computer users?

Command+P and save as PDF and if the site has a printer friendly version I usually select it save that page as pdf ....it eliminates much if not all of the ads.

[cpac]

Originally posted by Ratm:
Who cares how many others use or don't use this feature, its needed in Safari imho and the sooner they get in there the better.

Well since they only have so many people developing safari, I'd anybody with a more popular or pressing feature request would care.

Bottom line? It's not all that critical that Safari start supporting resumable downloads, particularly when there are a number of alternative downloading programs that can handle this for you. Site compatibility etc. are much more pressing concerns...

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Ratm:
Command+P and save as PDF and if the site has a printer friendly version I usually select it save that page as pdf ....it eliminates much if not all of the ads.

I did this before but it shrinks the width of the page a lot when you print the PDF. It's much more acurate to print directly from the open webpage in a browser.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally posted by macintologist:
By the way, didn't Safari copy a lot of features from Camino (Chimera at the time)? Steve Jobs at MWSF 03 was touting the bookmarking features of Safari and how when you said "add bookmark" it has a popup window asking you where and to rename it. That is almost straight from Camino. Example:

Well if you mean copy as in hire the developer from Camino and let him have input on the original UI development, yes, Apple did copy those features from Hyatt's Camino. (Hyatt was the original programmer for Camino and he now programs WebCore for Apple)

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by cpac:
My guess would be "yes" since no browser i've seen includes [resuming of downloads], and since you have to get dedicated downloading applications in order to get the functionality.

IIRC, iCab used to have this functionality, back in the OS 9 days. Pity it's not that usable of a browser anymore...

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by cpac:
My guess would be "yes" since no browser i've seen includes it, and since you have to get dedicated downloading applications in order to get the functionality.

Not true. Mozilla has it.
And if Safari was designed for "the future," then what about right now? And anyway, even with many broadband connections, dowloading large files (like the Quark demo) still take a long time.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by Ratm:


uh yes he did. I remember the crowds reaction and recognized the feature from Camino.

No, they mean the thing that appears when you choose Bookmarks > Show All Bookmarks. Camino only recently (i.e. after Safari) adopted this behavior, before it was a sidebar.