[mrgaskell]

I was having a discussion today with some of my students (informal one) and one of the guys was talking about how he pulled down some software and how cool the software was. I told him that piracy was wrong and that the company was losing money from it and it then costs everyone more money to buy it b/c they have to charge more to recoup development costs, etc. The kid then asks if they will ever know if he stole it. I told him that other than physically checking his computer, it would show up on certain apps if they used them for commercial work (i.e. Photoshop, DreamWeaver, etc.). They wanted to know how they would know and I could honestly not tell them. How would a pirater of software ever get caught?

Is this really just a moral dilemma or is there some technological way of getting into legal trouble for the occasional pirate?

How would you guys answer this?

[bmhome1]

Honesty with students is the only real choice.

Some applications "phone home" and talk with the author, pirated serial numbers would be recognized that way.

Some recent, like Quark go to such extremes that it is very unlikely pirating is even possible.

Others like Adobe are slowing utilizing on-line single machine registration only to greatly reduce future piracy.

The vast majority of all others depend on some level of honesty with the user not simply finding unlocking codes widely published on the web. Trial shareware that can be activated with a simple code are at greatest risk for losing revenue.

Then there's software no longer sold or supported that can only be used with a code previously sold to even work. Is that piracy or recycling?

[himself]

The likelihood of someone getting caught is really low. But someone can increase their chances of getting caught in a number of ways. The easiest way to get caught: registering pirated software with company that created it. They keep a database of the serial numbers of all registered software, and if that serial shows up more than once, they know the software has been pirated. Another way is, like you said, to do professional work (I'm referrig to graphic design in this case) and then submit that work to any number of design competitions. Sometimes, a designer (especially new designers) can get "audited" to make sure the software they used to create their submission is legit.

Also, some software packages contain "spyware," which transmit, over the internet, information that determines whether the software is legit or not.

[Avon]

Students that pirate software do no harm to the industry. In fact they promote their software by learning how to use it and then when they do have money either buying it or working for someone that does.

Its my suspicion that software companies turn the blind eye to students who pirate their software. Lets face it where is a student who can barely feed him/herself going to come with the hundreds or thousands of dollars necessary to purchase the industry standard software necessary to further their studies in their respective field??

What software companies do throw the book at is individuals making money with stolen software. Companies that get busted are always heavily fined and rightfully so. There is no reason for those who are making money by using someone's software to not pay for it.

When you place a student in a highly competitive society you must either give them the tools to succeed or let them get them on their own. Morally its a no brainer, a student has to do what he can to learn the trade, putting a financial road block in the way in my opinion is morally wrong.

[romeosc]

Originally posted by Avon:
Students that pirate software do no harm to the industry. In fact they promote their software by learning how to use it and then when they do have money either buying it or working for someone that does.

Its my suspicion that software companies turn the blind eye to students who pirate their software. Lets face it where is a student who can barely feed him/herself going to come with the hundreds or thousands of dollars necessary to purchase the industry standard software necessary to further their studies in their respective field??

What software companies do throw the book at is individuals making money with stolen software. Companies that get busted are always heavily fined and rightfully so. There is no reason for those who are making money by using someone's software to not pay for it.

When you place a student in a highly competitive society you must either give them the tools to succeed or let them get them on their own. Morally its a no brainer, a student has to do what he can to learn the trade, putting a financial road block in the way in my opinion is morally wrong.

Being poor is no excuse....anyone is poor compared to Bill Gates, does that mean I can come still your new car because I can't afford one!


Ps. tell your students that a lt of the software downloaded on "those peer to peer networks" is loaded with trojan horse viruses and can upload their confidential passwords, social security numbers as well as other information to identity theives!

Adobe denies it uploads infected files to those networks, but I know one Adobe employee who says that they "make available trojan software!"


Be affraid! Be very affraid!

[Mr. Blur]

Originally posted by Avon:
When you place a student in a highly competitive society you must either give them the tools to succeed or let them get them on their own. Morally its a no brainer, a student has to do what he can to learn the trade, putting a financial road block in the way in my opinion is morally wrong.

I get really tired of these "I am a poor student so it is okay to steal" excuses. It is wrong, plain and simple. Many software companies like Adobe and Microsoft (to name a couple large ones...) offer *very significant* discounts on their software for students, sometimes it is just a fraction of what the standard retail price is.

[Chuckit]

EDIT: Somehow double-posted.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Mr. Blur:
Many software companies like Adobe and Microsoft (to name a couple large ones...) offer *very significant* discounts on their software for students, sometimes it is just a fraction of what the standard retail price is.

A fraction of $1000 can still be a damned huge pile of money. (Which is not to say that pirating programs is right or wrong -- I'm staying out of that. Just that very large discounts aren't necessarily very significant if they still leave a really high price.)

[Developer]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
A fraction of $1000 can still be a damned huge pile of money.

Then lift your lazy ass and walk into your university's computer pool.

[dlefebvre]

These companies are totally intolerent with corporate piracy because that is where the money is. If you make money with your computer, then buy the software.
I believe they don't loose that much money on individual piracy. Honestly, how many people have software they would never buy in the first place? If there was no other way? How many owner of illegal software would really buy those $500 and + software? 3% or less? Most people have photoshop because they got it for free, not because they needed it. On this one Adobe (or another giant of your choice) is «losing» money that don't even exist.
I'm sure that if you add up the claimed losses of the RIAA and of the Software companies. You end up with a lot more money then people can afford to spend.

[eevyl]

Originally posted by dlefebvre:
Honestly, how many people have software they would never buy in the first place? If there was no other way? How many owner of illegal software would really buy those $500 and + software? 3% or less? Most people have photoshop because they got it for free, not because they needed it. On this one Adobe (or another giant of your choice) is «losing» money that don't even exist.

But they actually do lose money, big and specially small companies.

Adobe for sure lose money because people who never ever would buy Photoshop pro just get it "for free" and never look at cheaper alternatives like Photoshop Elements.

More on that, they never give a try at other small applications that for sure can get the work they want done, usually easier than those big pro mammoths, hurting sales of shareware and small commercial apps.

Piracy is bad. Period.

[typoon]

Originally posted by eevyl:
But they actually do lose money, big and specially small companies.

Adobe for sure lose money because people who never ever would buy Photoshop pro just get it "for free" and never look at cheaper alternatives like Photoshop Elements.

More on that, they never give a try at other small applications that for sure can get the work they want done, usually easier than those big pro mammoths, hurting sales of shareware and small commercial apps.

Piracy is bad. Period.

I know that Adobe for one allows you to purhcase a full version of Photoshop from Elements. Not sure if they still do I know they used to. You could get Photshop for 299 as opposed to the 600 price of photoshop. I know that with Adobe products you used to be able to just buy an upgrade for half the cost and it was a full version. Then they started having the software looking for a previous version.

[dialo]

Originally posted by romeosc:
Being poor is no excuse....anyone is poor compared to Bill Gates, does that mean I can come still your new car because I can't afford one!

The analogy doesn't work. You are comparing larceny to copyright infringement. Very different animals.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Developer:
Then lift your lazy ass and walk into your university's computer pool.

No need to get snippy. I work at a computer lab at my university, so access to programs isn't generally an issue for me personally. I was just saying I don't think companies always offer enough discount to fill the void that Avon was suggesting fuels piracy.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
No need to get snippy. I work at a computer lab at my university, so access to programs isn't generally an issue for me personally. I was just saying I don't think companies always offer enough discount to fill the void that Avon was suggesting fuels piracy.

I don't think I've ever seen a situation where somebody who absolutely, positively *needed* a certain software couldn't have found a legal way to access it or an alternative.

My 2c, and that's all I'll say on the subject.

-s*

[dlefebvre]

Originally posted by eevyl:
More on that, they never give a try at other small applications that for sure can get the work they want done, usually easier than those big pro mammoths, hurting sales of shareware and small commercial apps.

Piracy is bad. Period.

Your right, I forgot to view the problem from that angle. Working in a Broadcast Desing environement, I tend to forgot these things, I buy the software for our department (bought $13,000 worth of Adobe software upgrades 3 weeks ago) and I usually make an «evaluation» copy to fool around at home. But i don't distribute them elswhere.