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Eug · Jan 7, 2004, 01:29 PM

NeoOffice Java 0.7.1 just came out.

Basically, it's just a Java version of the X11 OpenOffice.

Pic.

Not that it really matters to me though. I have MS Office v.X and will get MS Office 2004 as soon as it's released.

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jan 7, 2004, 01:35 PM

Damn, that is one ugly app!

normyzo · Jan 7, 2004, 02:51 PM

But best of all, its NATIVE. Its a double-clickable bundle, and the only thing it doesn't do right now is Copy & Paste, which will be fixed this month or early next.

The OpenOffice.org on OS X sequence is this:

X11 Version
NeoOffice/J
Aquafied OpenOffice.org

Neo is a fully native stopgap version that works quite well, and will exist as the preferred native version until the Aquafied version will be out later this year.

Dan

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jan 7, 2004, 03:05 PM

What is its icon in the dock supposed to be? A pile of poo?

wataru · Jan 7, 2004, 04:21 PM

Hot damn! If it really does support Japanese text then I'm upgrading!

The icon is probably supposed to be a ship.

NeXTLoop · Jan 7, 2004, 05:16 PM

I have to say... I'm extremely impressed with this program. I had tried NeoOffice some time ago, and it was simply too "young" of a program to really use. But this is version is easily good enough for everyday use.

Eug · Jan 7, 2004, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
I have to say... I'm extremely impressed with this program. I had tried NeoOffice some time ago, and it was simply too "young" of a program to really use. But this is version is easily good enough for everyday use.

With no real cut and paste?

NeXTLoop · Jan 7, 2004, 07:37 PM

That's the only major thing that could prevent some people from using it. Other than that, it's really coming along nicely.

asxless · Jan 7, 2004, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
With no real cut and paste?

Just to clarify...
What is missing is copy and paste _between other_ Mac OS X apps and the NeoOffice/J suite apps. Copy, cut and paste works _within_ the NeoOffice/J suite of apps now.

-- asxless in iLand

wataru · Jan 8, 2004, 12:53 AM

Crashes on launch for me. Possible cause: My language is set to Japanese. I'll play with it more later.

The .app is a 353MB behemoth! I hope they can pare that down some.

JKT · Jan 8, 2004, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
With no real cut and paste?

I've been helping out beta testing Neo/J as an end user on and off for a few months now. There is one person working specifically on it (Patrick Luby) with help and tips from the X11 and aqua porting people. It is actually quite incredible just how much that Patrick has achieved in a relatively short period of time and he deserves a big round of applause for it.

Just as a FYI, the objective of the current 0.7 series of releases was/is to get native printing and keyboard support working - a few speed optimisations have also occurred at the same time. I believe that this is largely successful, though I imagine that the more people that help out testing it would determine just how successful. However, cut and paste between Neo/J and OS X has been deferred until the next development stage which I imagine Patrick will be tackling soon.

In many respects this port is better than the X11 version:

Uses the OS X fonts, printing mechanism, runs natively, defaults to your home folder for saving files, etc.

In some it isn't so good - mainly the interface can be quite sluggish at times.

Both suffer the inherent ugliness of being X11 apps.

Remember - this is still in development and it does have problems. Help find and cure them if you can.

JKT · Jan 8, 2004, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by wataru:
Crashes on launch for me. Possible cause: My language is set to Japanese. I'll play with it more later.

The .app is a 353MB behemoth! I hope they can pare that down some.

It could be a font issue - have you inactivated any with Font Book at all? Try posting at the Neo/J testing forum and Patrick may be able to help you track down the cause.

I imagine the size of the app is partly due to the language support files.

VEGAN · Jan 8, 2004, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by wataru:
Hot damn! If it really does support Japanese text then I'm upgrading!

The icon is probably supposed to be a ship.

I confirm, it supports Japanese. You can't imagine how happy I was!

JKT · Jan 8, 2004, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by VEGAN:
I confirm, it supports Japanese. You can't imagine how happy I was!

If you are a Japanese (or Chinese etc) language user, could you do Patrick a favour and provide some feedback as to how well inputting and keyboard support does or doesn't work as he doesn't know the language(s) at all and is having to assume that it functions OK. Post at the NeoOffice/J support or testing forums if you have the time.

TIA.

wataru · 05:40 PM

I believe this is my problem:
http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules...opic&t=307

I will try enabling everything in FontBook.

[Edit] It works! I hope they can get the FontBook bug fixed, though.

Turias · Jan 8, 2004, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
Damn, that is one ugly app!

Have you ever seen a beautiful Java app? I'm still looking...

Johnny_B · Jan 8, 2004, 05:56 PM

Very good work. I thoguht, yeah I know Java is ugly, and so is Open Office; but I can bare with that. But the X11 version is so sloooow. This Java version was quite snappy here at mine machine (sig.).

wataru · Jan 8, 2004, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by JKT:
If you are a Japanese (or Chinese etc) language user, could you do Patrick a favour and provide some feedback as to how well inputting and keyboard support does or doesn't work as he doesn't know the language(s) at all and is having to assume that it functions OK. Post at the NeoOffice/J support or testing forums if you have the time.

TIA.

I have some suggestions. I'm waiting for my registration confirmation now.

Do you know if it would damage the app if I went into the package and removed the .lproj's I don't want? Space is precious on my poor iBook.

Johnny, could you shave down that sig a bit? It's way bigger than the guidelines allow.

unlinear · Jan 8, 2004, 10:09 PM

limewire is a java app that uses aqua widgets. can neo do the same?

Eug · Jan 8, 2004, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by asxless:
Just to clarify...
What is missing is copy and paste _between other_ Mac OS X apps and the NeoOffice/J suite apps. Copy, cut and paste works _within_ the NeoOffice/J suite of apps now.

-- asxless in iLand

Interestingly, this was one of the reasons Pixar cited for switching from Linux to OS X. (We'll ignore the Jobs factor for now.)

asxless · Jan 8, 2004, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
Interestingly, this was one of the reasons Pixar cited for switching from Linux to OS X. (We'll ignore the Jobs factor for now.)

Of course, seamless copy and paste between apps from multiple vendors has been a hallmark of every Mac OS since 1984. But all along their have been exceptions and limitations -- notably Postscript objects have never been handled very well.

Most applications use their own internal 'clipboard' and only convert it to the OS clipboard when transferring the contents to another app. This is what is missing in Patrick's current implementation of NeoOffice/J. It isn't trivial but it's also not impossible

He has done a remarkable job so far. I'm willing to be patient and expect a very Mac solution in the near future.

-- asxless in iLand

VEGAN · Jan 9, 2004, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by JKT:
If you are a Japanese (or Chinese etc) language user, could you do Patrick a favour and provide some feedback as to how well inputting and keyboard support does or doesn't work as he doesn't know the language(s) at all and is having to assume that it functions OK. Post at the NeoOffice/J support or testing forums if you have the time.

TIA.

I'll check out the link you posted, thanks.
For me, typing in Japanese works perfect [if you set the right font].

It's a bit different from usual cocoa applications... because there I can just have any font set as my default and when I switch to Japanese input it starts writing Japanese...
Here, I have to switch fonts [song, osaka, etc]

JKT · Jan 9, 2004, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by wataru:
I have some suggestions. I'm waiting for my registration confirmation now.

Do you know if it would damage the app if I went into the package and removed the .lproj's I don't want? Space is precious on my poor iBook.

Johnny, could you shave down that sig a bit? It's way bigger than the guidelines allow.

At the moment, the .lproj folders only constitute 56KB of space so that won't help you much

You'll need to ask Patrick which of the OOo specific language files you could safely remove (e.g. the other language dictionaries and templates etc). Sorry, but I don't know enough to be able to say if you can do this without causing any issues or which files you can remove if it doesn't cause any problems.

absmiths · Jan 9, 2004, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Turias:
Have you ever seen a beautiful Java app? I'm still looking...

Sure, IntelliJ IDEA and BugSeeker2 are quite acceptable. Neither one of them is Aqua, but BugSeeker2 looks like a nice OS 9 Platinum app, and IDEA looks like something from XP. So, while neither is a beautiful AQUA app, the UI design is extremely well done.

But, if you are just looking for a pretty GUI without regard for usability, then you are correct.

wataru · Jan 9, 2004, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by VEGAN:
I'll check out the link you posted, thanks.
For me, typing in Japanese works perfect [if you set the right font].

It's a bit different from usual cocoa applications... because there I can just have any font set as my default and when I switch to Japanese input it starts writing Japanese...
Here, I have to switch fonts [song, osaka, etc]

It switched fonts automatically for me. Is your OS X language set to Japanese? Mine is, and that's probably the reason (my Neo/J interface is all in Japanese too).

My only problem with the Japanese input is that it's not inline.

philcozz · Jan 9, 2004, 04:00 PM

I've worked a little bit with NeoOffice 0.7.1 and I have to say, despite the ugly interface and the current lack of copy/paste between other apps, this has real promise. Snappy for a java-based app, and I love that it uses my OSX fonts (anti-aliased) and prints through print center.

It opens and saves as .doc files nicely, too. We're on our way to having a real choice in word processors, I think!

besson3c · Jan 9, 2004, 11:30 PM

Will this run in the NeoOS?

VEGAN · Jan 10, 2004, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by wataru:
It switched fonts automatically for me. Is your OS X language set to Japanese? Mine is, and that's probably the reason (my Neo/J interface is all in Japanese too).

My only problem with the Japanese input is that it's not inline.

No, no, I'm just "pasokon otaku" but not Japanese

My main interface language is English

qnxde · Jan 10, 2004, 06:38 AM

I especially love the Windows 98-esque bad gradients and hard coded interface elements. I've never seen such an out of place looking eyesore in my life. I'd rather use edlin.

normyzo · Jan 10, 2004, 10:31 PM

FYI, Patrick made the inline editing stuff work yesterday.

Picture

Dan

qnxde · Jan 11, 2004, 06:40 AM

I love it how people still use Grab.app

MacGorilla · Jan 11, 2004, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by qnxde:
I love it how people still use Grab.app

Whats wrong with Grab.app?

wataru · Jan 11, 2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by normyzo:
FYI, Patrick made the inline editing stuff work yesterday.

Picture

Dan

Great! And I never even got a chance to complain about it (my registration email never came!).

asxless · Jan 11, 2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by wataru:
...(my registration email never came!).

FWIW Trinity registration emails are discarded as spam if you use a .mac email account

I had to use an account with another service provider to get my registration completed.

-- asxless

JKT · Jan 12, 2004, 02:18 PM

Patrick has released a patch that should fix these bugs:

" 1. NeoJ will no longer crash at startup if you have disabled fonts in the FontBook application. Also, if you disable any fonts in FontBook while NeoJ is running, NeoJ will no longer crash and will use the default system font.

2. Asian keyboard input is now "on-the-spot". The floating input window no longer appears when using an Asian keyboard. Instead, text is handled in the NeoJ window like most other Mac OS X applications. This fixes the Traditional Chinese keyboard problems thta have been noted. This fixes bug #30.

3. NeoJ will no longer appear to hang while printing. This fixes bug #52.

I also included fixes for bugs #33, #49, and #51. "

wataru · Jan 12, 2004, 02:58 PM

The fixes work great. Thanks for letting us know!

JKT · 04:26 AM

Patrick has released a new patch for v0.7.1 that enables copy/paste of text (no images yet). Please note that these patches are for testing and not for real world use, but if you want to help find or squash some bugs, give it a whirl.

See this thread at Trinity for more.

Edit: Just to make that clearer - this is copy/paste of text between OS X apps and NeoO/J

Eug Wanker · Jan 20, 2004, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by JKT:
Patrick has released a new patch for v0.7.1 that enables copy/paste of text (no images yet). Please note that these patches are for testing and not for real world use, but if you want to help find or squash some bugs, give it a whirl.

See this thread at Trinity for more.

Wow that was quick. Hopefully the bugs will be worked out over the next few months to make it more usable.

I'm surprised at the pace, considering it's one guy. Doesn't he work for a living???

JKT · Jan 21, 2004, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Wow that was quick. Hopefully the bugs will be worked out over the next few months to make it more usable.

I'm surprised at the pace, considering it's one guy. Doesn't he work for a living???

The rate Patrick is going, it'll be the next few weeks... not Months

JKT · Jan 21, 2004, 11:45 AM

Patch 4 is now available (see the same thread as above):

Quote from Patrick:

I just uploaded "patch-4" which has the carraige return conversion fix and I have added copy and paste for RTF, PICT, and TIFF formats.

spiney · Jan 21, 2004, 09:54 PM

WoW!!!!

Pasting graphics from the clipboard. Works like a charm.

Thanks a million.

sjampoo · Jan 22, 2004, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by besson3c:
Will this run in the NeoOS?

LMAO

wataru · Jan 25, 2004, 02:42 PM

There is now a seventh patch available with improved copy/paste support. If there are no bugs found it will bring NeoOffice/J to version 0.8.

You can get it from this thread:
http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules...c&start=30

wataru · Jan 27, 2004, 12:31 AM

There's also a patch 8 that fixes some Japanese input issues.

Also, the problem with registering at the forums over there seems to have been fixed, as I was able to register with my .mac email account.