[clockworks]

first off, it took me forver to figure out how to setup the keybindings the way i want. second, it doesn't support tabs a la kde's konsole, now for the biggest issues of all: when i rlogin to a linux machine and use vim to edit text files, pressing the arrow keys rapidly while not in insert mode cause me to go into insert mode and then type a somewhat random charater. very very annyone when i'm navigating around source code. i try to move the cursor here and there by pressing or holding down the arrow keys, then bam...i get that "error beep" and there is god damned text inserted somewhere in the file.

what is going on?

i must say, i miss my linux machine...very much...(i'm a devout linux fan forced to use os x at work).

thank you for the help.

[gorickey]

Hate® is such a strong word...are you sure you just don't "dislike" Terminal.app?

[clockworks]

Originally posted by gorickey:
Hate® is such a strong word...are you sure you just don't "dislike" Terminal.app?

if i saw it dying on the side of the road, i wouldn't stop to help it...

[voodoo]

Why don't you just use an alternative terminal application if you don't like this one? Terminal.app isn't the beginning and end of all console apps in OS X.

For instance iTerm http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17484

or just search versiontracker for 'terminal'

Have you tried xterm?

[clockworks]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Why don't you just use an alternative terminal application if you don't like this one? Terminal.app isn't the beginning and end of all console apps in OS X.

For instance iTerm http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17484

or just search versiontracker for 'terminal'

Have you tried xterm?

my sys admin refused to install konsole on my puter...i imagine he would refuse to install other other pieces of software. reason? they want a uniform system for all the computers in the office...why? i have no idea...=(

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by clockworks:
my sys admin refused to install konsole on my puter...i imagine he would refuse to install other other pieces of software. reason? they want a uniform system for all the computers in the office...why? i have no idea...=(

I suppose if you have only software the admins are already experts on, they don't have to bother learning anything in order to do their job.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
I suppose if you have only software the admins are already experts on, they don't have to bother learning anything in order to do their job.

That would be my guess as well. Too bad clockwork. You may not like the Terminal.app but think of it this way. You could be working with the DOS-shell

[Horsepoo!!!]

The terminal hates you too.

[coolmacdude]

Originally posted by clockworks:
my sys admin refused to install konsole on my puter...i imagine he would refuse to install other other pieces of software. reason? they want a uniform system for all the computers in the office...why? i have no idea...=(

Can you access SUM? If so you can install it yourself.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by clockworks:
my sys admin refused to install konsole on my puter...i imagine he would refuse to install other other pieces of software. reason? they want a uniform system for all the computers in the office...why? i have no idea...=(

Just install it in your home directory.

[vsurfer]

Home directory is a good idea.

I think the people over in the "Unix" forum on this board are also a great repository of ideas and fixes regarding all ~nix ~nux types of issues and you might want to try this sort of thing over there.

I don't know if you have X11 on the machine and whether there's anyway for you to get Fink on there -- I know I managed to get KDE running on mine via X11 for a while, before I did something nasty with Virex that brought the whole Fink thing down.

Or, if you are able to access the compiler, maybe you could compile some of your favorite terminal emulators or programs into your home directory from source. I'm sure they'd have a lot of info on keybindings and running different types of term in there.

here's one location:
http://www.opendarwin.org/
http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/index.php






----
PS. Using the word 'hate' probably won't get you the most optimal response - you know what attracts more bees, vs. what attracts flies.

PPS. Spare a thought for all those macophiles who are constrained to use Windows machines at work during the day -- your fate could be far worse.

[Cadaver]

While I'm definitely no CLI expert, I know you can change the (terminal) shell on MacOS X, i.e., Bash vs. others. Perhaps a different CLI shell would make Linux users happier?

[voodoo]

I have a feeling this guy was just trolling

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by voodoo:
I have a feeling this guy was just trolling

Looks that way...

"Look at me, I have access to the terminal and code on my computer, but can't install any other programs."

BS

The thing I like about OS X over Linux is that we have commercial programs.

[clockworks]

trolling. wtf is that? i come here with a serious issue and yall just are so quick to jump on the bashing bandwagon.

here's the deal. yes i have access to gcc and yes i can download qt and patched kde (to run on os x) source and yes i know how to install **** in my home dir. here's the problem with that: qt-mac NOR qt-x11 will compile. i get all sorts of compilation errors when i try either one of them...despite the fact they configure just fine.

so anyways, that leaves me back to my original problem. i'm forced to use terminal instead of konsole and the damn program sends random chars when the arrow keys are held down.

[clockworks]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Looks that way...

"Look at me, I have access to the terminal and code on my computer, but can't install any other programs."

BS

The thing I like about OS X over Linux is that we have commercial programs.

BS yourself. why don't you stop jumping to conclusions before making accusations. read my previous post about why i couldn't get konsole installed.

[mitchell_pgh]

Thanks for the PM clockworks,

The reason I say BS is that you are working as a developer yet can't install anything other then the base OS X install? I find that crazy. If you performed the base install of ANY OS and were developing on it, you would run in to problems.

You are installing an OS designed for AVERAGE USERS. Mom and pop trying to send email and surf the web. Naturally you are going to need alternatives when you start higher level programming.

I labeled you a troll because you started this thread off that way "I Hate Terminal". Perhaps if you would have approached this with an open mind you would have received a better response. We have offered options, but they aren't available to you. What else are we supposed to say.

If you want me to say "You may be too advanced for terminal.app" fine... Feel free to print this out and place it on your refrigerator.

I think you are missing the point. Mail.app, iChat, Safari and Terminal are meant for beginner to quasi-advanced, but if you need very specific needs, guess what, you may need to use a more specific application JUST LIKE WITH LINUX!

I feel you are more upset that OS X isn't Linux with a cleaned up GUI.

[clockworks]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
The reason I say BS is that you are working as a developer yet can't install anything other then the base OS X install? I find that crazy. If you performed the base install of ANY OS and were developing on it, you would run in to problems.

my machine was setup by the system admin. i do not have root access to it. futhermore, i tried installing qt-mac and qt-x11 in my home dir, but both failed with compilation errors. i've been compiling qt since early 2.x.x so i'm pretty sure i'm doing it right. next step is to ask about it on the mailing list...

oh hmm, on reading your paragraph again, i'm kinda confused. are you saying that its crazy that i personally can't install new software or that i'm not allowed to install new software? cuz if its the latter, i agree with you.

i erased the part of your quote about "mom and pop apps". ok, well that explains a lot. i think i have the mentality that since mac moved to a BSD core, it is going to have pretty advanced apps...at least give you the option to make them advanced.

btw, sorry if a few parts of my PM were coarse...and yeah maybe the title of this thread was a bit harsh (but honestly, i wrote the title in a kinda playful mood...and i thought that was further shown by my post "if i saw it dying on the side of the road..."). i was just getting extremely frustrated with the problem (can you imagine editing large source files and having weird chars inserted here and there?).

[clockworks]

and like i said in the PM. i >want< to like macs. i think its incredibly cool that a commercial OS is based on an open source unix kernel and they use a lot of open source in their apps and resubmit their modifications back to the community. that part is so cool, it had me interested in buying a mac for my home. i'm just a little disappointed with the included apps. but i'm trying to get around that by coming here.

my goals of joining the forums:

1) learn how to tweak the standard apps to my liking
2) learn of alternatives to the standard apps that are more to my liking

once i get those two things down to a satisfactory level, i'll be thinking of buying a mac again...=)

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by clockworks:
and like i said in the PM. i >want< to like macs. i think its incredibly cool that a commercial OS is based on an open source unix kernel and they use a lot of open source in their apps and resubmit their modifications back to the community. that part is so cool, it had me interested in buying a mac for my home. i'm just a little disappointed with the included apps. but i'm trying to get around that by coming here.

my goals of joining the forums:

1) learn how to tweak the standard apps to my liking
2) learn of alternatives to the standard apps that are more to my liking

once i get those two things down to a satisfactory level, i'll be thinking of buying a mac again...=)

Then we are cool. You will find that many of us have issues with the applications. It doesn't have this or that... seriously, submit feedback to Apple. YOU are the type of person that they are going after. I've submitted a few (back in the OS 10.1 days) and I would say that just about all of them have been cleaned up. I don't think it was just my email, but the email of around a few hundred people requesting the same thing.

I've found that this forums is my first stop (after google) when stumped for an answer. I would say 80% of the time it helps, and the other 20% I find my answer on Google/Versiontracker.

I hope you enjoy your new work computer even if it isn't set up the way you want it.

Also, one of the major problems that many have with the OS is that they think about the problem too much instead of doing what should be natural. It sucks because with many of the applications, the best parts aren't documented.

[mitchell_pgh]

You will also find that many of us are SOOOOO tired of defending the OS that our first reaction is to pull the "troll" card in reaction to negative feedback. You have no idea how many Mac haters come in here and within their first 10 posts cry wolf.

I'm guilty as well. You will find that posting negative comments about Apple is an art-form unless you want people to bash you, but I've been here a few years and I usually start off with "Does anyone know how to XYZ because NAME-OF-APPLICATION doesn't seem to do it correctly"

Just my 2¢

[clockworks]

thanks for your replies, mitchell. i'll take your advice to heart.

here is the solution to my problems (with a nice explaination of why it happens...and why it happens more often when using vim over a network connection...which i am).

http://fusion.gat.com/docview/vi_arrow_key_fix.html

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by clockworks:
thanks for your replies, mitchell. i'll take your advice to heart.

here is the solution to my problems (with a nice explaination of why it happens...and why it happens more often when using vim over a network connection...which i am).

http://fusion.gat.com/docview/vi_arrow_key_fix.html

I wasn't sure if I was experiencing the same thing that you were talking about originally, but yeah, when I ssh/telnet from Mac OS X to my school's Sun boxes I get funky business happening when I use the arrow keys:

For example, on a DEC VT100 terminal, the up-arrow key generates the escape sequence ESC O A (ESCape, capital O, capital A). If taken as three separate editing commands - instead of as a single sequence, as intended - "vi" would beep if it is not in insert mode (ESCape), open a new line above the cursor (O), and finally add the text string "A" to that new line (A), staying in open-line mode

Ah-hah.

[Grrr]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Thanks for the PM clockworks,

You are installing an OS designed for AVERAGE USERS. Mom and pop trying to send email and surf the web. Naturally you are going to need alternatives when you start higher level programming.

Ahh, so that will be why Virginia Tech use it to such great effect then..

[clockworks]

Originally posted by Grrr:
Ahh, so that will be why Virginia Tech use it to such great effect then..

they probably used the machine...the architecture of it...to great effect. not the os x apps like Safari and Mail targeted at the genearl public...=P

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by clockworks:
they probably used the machine...the architecture of it...to great effect. not the os x apps like Safari and Mail targeted at the genearl public...=P

A Beowulf cluster of Dual G5 Xserves... running iCal...

THE FASTEST CALENDAR IN THE WORLD!!!

[gorickey]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
A Beowulf cluster of Dual G5 Xserves... running iCal...

THE FASTEST CALENDAR IN THE WORLD!!!

iCal? Screw that....I want to know SimpleText clock speed while opening up Stickies...