[schalliol]

Reply here if you agree that Apple should offer the lossless codec for iTunes Music Store Downloads, we can send this list to Apple (please increase the number by your name so we'll have a quick count and use your real name if you don't mind, or your MacNN name if you do). I assume they eventually intend to do this, but so far I don't see that the new store offers these kinds of downloads. If the files were at least 192kbps, I'd be more excited, but 128 is pretty low and I'm all for a lossless codec to be used. Since the new codec still is a m4a file, I would be shocked to find out that they didn't design into that codec the DRM option.

#1 Jonathan Schalliol

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

You don't get it, do you?
- Even at half the size, lossless files are way too big for efficient and manageable download.
- the iTMS exists solely because the labels are guaranteed that the files AREN'T CD quality.

Perhaps they might offer higher bitrate aac for a premium one day, who knows. but otherwise, anything else ain't gonna happen.

[wataru]

This is stupid. If you want to make a petition, then make a petition. Doing it in a thread will get you absolutely nowhere.

[mitchell_pgh]

While I NEVER use them, I would rather see Apple support the Open Source community by supporting OGG and FLAC over a proprietary format.

[chabig]

It doesn't look the Apple Lossless Encoder is a proprietary format. One other thread notes the extension on these is .m4a and apparently the MPEG 4 standards body has endorsed an open lossless standard.

Chris

[schalliol]

Why exactly do you have to **** on something that's intended to show interest for a use? You go out of the way to do so. This wasn't intended to be a petition, which is why I didn't use the word. It's intended to show ourselves and Apple people who visit MacNN, of which there are many, that the people expressing interest want to see good quality audio available for download. I know that ALC isn't going to be better than CD quality if they rip from CDs, but they could do better. And for those of you who are going to say "audiophile this, audiophile that," those people want something like SACD, which is way larger than what people have on CDs, but perhaps ALC would even work for this.

chabig, it may be a standard, but I think Apple can still put its own spin on it, they need digital rights management and I'm sure this is part of the addition here, why else would Apple even bother to update iPods to use it. Of course if Apple starts changing the downloading format to a higher quality codec, that will become the standard almost right away for downloads of that type, since iTMS is so large and there aren't CD quality downloads available at other online sources.

[Rev-O]

Sorry, I'm closing in on 200 purchases and I'm still fine with AAC's. Maybe offer a higher quality AAC (160 or 190ish kbps), but I don't think it matters to me that much.

[f1000]

Originally posted by schalliol:
Reply here if you agree that Apple should offer the lossless codec for iTunes Music Store Downloads, we can send this list to Apple (please increase the number by your name so we'll have a quick count and use your real name if you don't mind, or your MacNN name if you do).

I've already sent Apple an email asking them to do so.

Since I'm on broadband, it'd only take me 15 minutes to download an entire lossless compressed CD from the iTMS music store (assuming perfect throughput).

It'd be nice if I could buy CD's online and then have iTunes download them automatically for me when I'm not using my computer.

[Horsepoo!!!]

No petition in the world will make Apple allow downloadable lossless format songs. In terms of bandwidth requirements, server storage space requirements, and money, it's not just not a realistic option. Not enough users would actually download this format (because of the time it takes to download the song or the album and because of the space it takes up) to make this a financially sound idea.

You're wasting your time.

[schalliol]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
No petition in the world will make Apple allow downloadable lossless format songs. In terms of bandwidth requirements, server storage space requirements, and money, it's not just not a realistic option. Not enough users would actually download this format (because of the time it takes to download the song or the album and because of the space it takes up) to make this a financially sound idea.

You're wasting your time.

Wow. I totally disagree, btw. Storage is <$1/GB now (look at SpyMac's free space and Google) and Internet transmission costs are minimal. Why do you think Apple updated the iTMS, added iPod software for all iPods ever made and updated quicktime for the codecon the same day? What benefit do they have for putting this out othewise? I'll place a bet that you're wrong.

Also, f1000, thanks for the words.

[f1000]

A 200 GB hard drive can store 300 uncompressed CD’s for $120. That's like 40 cents a CD!

A 3 Mbits/s cable modem can download a 60 MB uncompressed CD song in 2.6 minutes, which isn't an onerous wait time for me. Apple's lossless codec would cut the download time in half.

People already download programs and movies over the Internet that are hundreds of megabytes in size, and customers like me refuse to buy AAC's at any price. If Apple charges me more to download lossless compressed CD's, I'll gladly pay.

[mitchell_pgh]

I like the people that bitch about AAC and MP3 quality...

... only to find out they are using $19.99 speakers connected to their mac.

[schalliol]

I agree f1000!

I'm not sure who that last comment is directed to, here's what I have connected via optical digital connection via a Slimdevices Squeezebox: & headphones http://www.schalliol.com/property/el...r/DSCF0020.JPG

It is no $100,000 system, but even CDs aren't very high quality, so to assert that it's not worth it to at least have CD quality audio isn't a stretch. If I asked for SACD quality audio in multi-channel, then maybe. Remember when you switched to CDs? or are you all using tape decks outside your computer? Yeah yeah, CDs have that nice random access control that tape decks don't so it's not a direct comparison, but I'm pretty positive most people didn't switch to CDs only for the random access capability....you have DVD players, right? Even on my ~$250 klipsch audio system diectly connected to the tower, it's EASY to hear the difference between 128kbps AAC and a CD.

[tooki]

Originally posted by schalliol:
Wow. I totally disagree, btw. Storage is <$1/GB now (look at SpyMac's free space and Google) and Internet transmission costs are minimal.

No, they're not. The cost of sending a 20MB file for each song would be quite prohibitive if the cost was to be kept below that of just buying the CD.

tooki

[schalliol]

Originally posted by tooki:
No, they're not. The cost of sending a 20MB file for each song would be quite prohibitive if the cost was to be kept below that of just buying the CD.

tooki

Fine, mark my words, between now and the end of MacWorld San Francisco, there will be a higher quality version of iTMS downloads that will use this new codec. It could be anything from slightly better to a lot better.

[bmedina]

Originally posted by chabig:
It doesn't look the Apple Lossless Encoder is a proprietary format. One other thread notes the extension on these is .m4a and apparently the MPEG 4 standards body has endorsed an open lossless standard.

Chris

The codec is proprietary, even though Apple has decided to put them in an m4a container (despite the fact that MPEG4 and Apple's encoder have nothing to do with each other). The official MPEG4 lossless encoder, MPEG4 ALS, has not yet been finalized.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by schalliol:
Fine, mark my words, between now and the end of MacWorld San Francisco, there will be a higher quality version of iTMS downloads that will use this new codec. It could be anything from slightly better to a lot better.

If it doesn't happen, you shall send me your whole collection of music ripped on Apple Lossless...k thx bye.

[dreilly1]

All I know is that if the Apple Lossless format will let me play songs bought from iTunes without the $%@#&%# gap between songs, then I will buy all my music on iTunes from now until the end of time.