[sq'æ]

I've been doing some experimenting with CDs vs. iTunes, and it appears that any music played through iTunes (both ripped songs AND CDs played through the program) loses its true stereo imaging.

I checked if it was a lousy jack on my PB, but it's not. Other audio programs running out of my headphone jack are true stereo separation. It's not the jack.

Interestingly enough, I also checked my iPod, and it IS true stereo separation, too. It's the same files as the iTunes files, so it's not the encoding that loses it, either. It seems as though it's an iTunes-program-itself sort of problem.

I realize this doesn't negate the use of iTunes by any means or probably even matter much in most listening environments. However, I did hear it, and it has me puzzled.

Has anyone else noticed this? Check it out if you get a chance and are ever bothered by things such as this.

[f1000]

I'm hearing stereo.

[MacGorilla]

Stereo here.

[sq'æ]

It's stereo, yes, but not true separation. For instance, if you have a tune that you know a guitar is in the left channel only, when played through iTunes and you pan hard right (or unplug the left one), you can still hear it in the right side, albeit however little. As opposed to doing the same thing with my iPod or home stereo system and the left-side guitar not bleeding into the right channel at all.

Like I said, not a big deal on the one hand, but it is noticeable.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by sq'æ:
It's stereo, yes, but not true separation. For instance, if you have a tune that you know a guitar is in the left channel only, when played through iTunes and you pan hard right (or unplug the left one), you can still hear it in the right side, albeit however little. As opposed to doing the same thing with my iPod or home stereo system and the left-side guitar not bleeding into the right channel at all.

Like I said, not a big deal on the one hand, but it is noticeable.

Seems to be fine for me. Just listened to "Island in the Sun" by Weezer; definitely complete separation with the guitar in my right ear.

[Rickster]

Haven't had a good chance to verify whether it does this on my machine(s), but I imagine this could be a side effect of the "Sound Enhancer" feature.

[King Bob On The Cob]

No, this is an effect of the iTunes.
Once notes drop below a certain db, they combine them because your ear usually can't tell the difference, and it makes the bass sound "richer"

[Eug Wanker]

What kind of settings do you have in your iTunes prefs?

[RayX]

With iTunes 4.5:

1. Go to Preferences, turn off Sound Check and Sound Enhancer

2. Turn off EQ

3. Volume in iTunes should be all the way to the right

4. Adjust your system volume (or if you have a digital output, adjust the volume on your amp/speakers).

[sq'æ]

Originally posted by Rickster:
Haven't had a good chance to verify whether it does this on my machine(s), but I imagine this could be a side effect of the "Sound Enhancer" feature.

Interesting. I turned off the Sound Enhancer, and the mixes (stereo panning/separation and, actually, overall clarity of the mix) opened up--just the way they should sound.

Nice. I always listened to music through my iPod because of this. Now my iTunes is right.

I haven't done research on the Sound Enhancement "feature." So the thought process is that if they combine the low-level frequencies (as King on the Cob said) then the music sounds fuller? That's interesting. I'm going back and forth with the sound enhancer settings, and, from what I can tell, it spreads the freq. spectrum out more evenly across the whole stereo field, which theoretically makes it sound "fuller" or maybe even wider overall, but in actuality, it takes away from the stereo imaging that's on the albums, which, to me, is SUCH an important thing in the scope of mixes, especially with groups that really use the full stereo field as a tool and a mixing method to put things in the right balance; Tool, Jellyfish, Queen, Beck, Radiohead, Wilco, and Steely Dan are some groups that immediately come to mind as those who really use different studio techniques as part of their overall sound.

Thanks for the replys, everyone! The 'NN comes through yet again

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by sq'æ:
Interesting. I turned off the Sound Enhancer, and the mixes (stereo panning/separation and, actually, overall clarity of the mix) opened up--just the way they should sound.

Sound Enhancer only makes things sound better when the speakers are terrible and the volume is low (too much clipping at higher levels). I tend to stay away from this feature.

[threestain]

what about the sound check - does it do anything apart from adjust volume levels?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by sq'æ:
I haven't done research on the Sound Enhancement "feature." So the thought process is that if they combine the low-level frequencies (as King on the Cob said) then the music sounds fuller? That's interesting. I'm going back and forth with the sound enhancer settings, and, from what I can tell, it spreads the freq. spectrum out more evenly across the whole stereo field, which theoretically makes it sound "fuller" or maybe even wider overall, but in actuality, it takes away from the stereo imaging that's on the albums, which, to me, is SUCH an important thing in the scope of mixes, especially with groups that really use the full stereo field as a tool and a mixing method to put things in the right balance; Tool, Jellyfish, Queen, Beck, Radiohead, Wilco, and Steely Dan are some groups that immediately come to mind as those who really use different studio techniques as part of their overall sound.

You're pretty much right on the money. All commercial radio stations these days have them in the mix that goes on the air, usually right after the "kill all sound by compressing to death" boxes.

Allow me to re-post from an earlier thread in the Digital A/V forum:

originally posted by me:

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
I think that did the trick. BTW, what does the sound enhancer do (except for the obvious)?

It's a sort of aural exciter. It shifts and phases certain frequencies to give the impression of more "sparkle" and a "broader" sound on crappy equipment.

This is a sampling of "pro" opinion from the Metric Halo Mobile I/O mailing list:

I do a lot of work in the in the field of spatial audio and have some
knowledge in this area. I found the sound enhancer for Itunes really
messes with the sound quality (both in the spatial and frequency
domain). I highly recommend for any professional audio use (or any use
for that matter), turn off Sound Enhancer in Itunes The Sound Enhancer
on/off is located in the Itunes preferences.

Turn it OFF. It does horrible things.

In layman's terms: it completely ****s up the sound beyond all recognition.

Turn it off at all costs if you consider the artists'/engineers' idea of what the music should sound like to be of any importance.

-s*

[sq'æ]

Thanks, Spheric. I agree about the artists'/engineers' opinions and original vision.

Somebody jacks up a mix of mine thinking they made it sound better, I'd be a little upset.

Thanks, again, everyone.

[Grrr]

The sound enhancer is to blame yes.. But it's not always bad for music at all. Otherwise it would not be there.
However, the big problems come when music has been created using similar effects/technology straight from the studio. Then iTunes users unknowingly apply it again, then the effects clash in a bad way and the results are not at all good.
Still, I listen to music as it was intended to be listened to, and keep the sound enhancer off.
Having said that.. Occasionally it can make shitty little laptop speakers sound a lot less shitty.
Choice is yours..

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Grrr:
The sound enhancer is to blame yes.. But it's not always bad for music at all. Otherwise it would not be there.
[...]
Having said that.. Occasionally it can make shitty little laptop speakers sound a lot less shitty.
Choice is yours..

The key in my post above is "shitty equipment".

But even there...

[Talk2Angus]

It's stereo, yes, but not true separation.
it is in stereo but not true true high quality stereo!!!!!!!!!!
I know what u feel and hear and i agree!!!!!!!!!!

Try getting Sony Sound Forge 7.0a
U can edit ur music in an unbelieveble way

Its about 450$ for the full thing!!!!!!!!
Worth every $!!!!!!!!!!!

[Michel_80]

Is this "joint stereo" feature in mp3 importing? Or is this with all formats being played?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Talk2Angus:
It's stereo, yes, but not true separation.
it is in stereo but not true true high quality stereo!!!!!!!!!!
I know what u feel and hear and i agree!!!!!!!!!!

Try getting Sony Sound Forge 7.0a
U can edit ur music in an unbelieveble way

Its about 450$ for the full thing!!!!!!!!
Worth every $!!!!!!!!!!!

Bullsh!it.

Turn off the Sound Enhancer, and you have perfectly fine stereo separation.


If U reed t3h thread, u lrn th4t u kn heer ur µ-zic in most unbelievable way usg jest iTunes LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

TALK2ME
Communication is Key
Tel: (+2731) 9166902, Fax: (+2731) 9162140
Durban
South Afica

Communication is key, you know!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-s*

[bmedina]

Originally posted by Michel_80:
Is this "joint stereo" feature in mp3 importing? Or is this with all formats being played?

Joint stereo is a feature of modern codecs. It should be turned on, as a proper implementation will always sound better in joint stereo than normal stereo.