Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Randman · May 25, 2004, 12:46 PM

Is FUD being used to sell things on Apple users?

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice how all these "security" firms that hardly anyone ever heard of prior are popping up to issue alerts (and to sell the cure) on the Apple segment.
Intego and it's "Trojan", even if it was a proof-of-concept trojan and not something people should fear.
No, but Intego's advisory came out in the same month it had full-page advertisements in many Mac magazines.
Coincidence?

Now, Secunia is issuing advisories about the Safari exploitation. And while Apple has released a security fix and other companies have (for free) offered apps and advice to plug the hole, but we still have another company making a name for itself.

So what do people think? Is it a marketing approach by some rat bastard companies? Or just a coincidence that all of this is happening at once?

tooki · May 25, 2004, 01:11 PM

Fear used to sell products?!? Never! How preposterous!

Seriously? Intego's been around for a while, and has had regular ads in every Mac magazine for years. I do agree that they were overzealous about that trojan.

And Secunia... as far as I know, does not make any Mac products.

tooki

P.S. This didn't belong in the OS X forum -- it's a software discussion.

absmiths · May 25, 2004, 01:12 PM

I would suggest that this has always been the case - just like NAV pushing its' internet security for Mac OS 7/8/9. As a user of the internet and a campus network, sharing lots of files with other users, etc, I can honestly say that not once did NAV alert me to a real concern (although it did alert me *hundreds of times* to stuff like installers, etc).

I think that as the market grows (or at least seems to) more companies will try to step in and try to become THE security company.

OptimusG4 · May 25, 2004, 01:49 PM

Regardless I still dont have antivirus software on my mac. Dont download MS Software from limewire and you should be safe.

Millennium · May 25, 2004, 01:50 PM

Forgive me if I disagree.

The Mac is inherently more secure than Windows. We have a better architecture and (this latest flaw notwithstanding) better defaults. For a long time, however, we (the Mac community) have been operating under the delusion that we're invincible, and it's a cold hard fact that we never were and never will be. It is harder to intrude into a Mac, and less damage can be done, but the fact remains that it can be done. We need to start treating our machines accordingly.

I don't endorse writing Trojan horses, viruses, worms, and the like. But frankly, this whole episode needed to happen. It's long past time we started taking security seriously as a community, and if these exploits get us to start doing that, then in the end a great deal of good will have come from them.

Randman · May 25, 2004, 02:08 PM

I agree with taking matters of security seriously, but I do not agree with companies attempting to profit from scaring people into using their products.

mitchell_pgh · May 25, 2004, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Forgive me if I disagree.

The Mac is inherently more secure than Windows. We have a better architecture and (this latest flaw notwithstanding) better defaults. For a long time, however, we (the Mac community) have been operating under the delusion that we're invincible, and it's a cold hard fact that we never were and never will be. It is harder to intrude into a Mac, and less damage can be done, but the fact remains that it can be done. We need to start treating our machines accordingly.

I don't endorse writing Trojan horses, viruses, worms, and the like. But frankly, this whole episode needed to happen. It's long past time we started taking security seriously as a community, and if these exploits get us to start doing that, then in the end a great deal of good will have come from them.

I couldn't agree with you more. The main difference between a our critical flaw and a M$ critical flaws is the MS flaw takes down the entire system, and our flaw takes deletes the home directory. So if your jerk friend has an account, and downloads a trojan, he only wipes out his stuff, and not yours.

but common sense should always be used.

erage · May 25, 2004, 02:36 PM

I don't believe MS software is inherently more secure than Apple. It's just that MS has 2 orders of magnitude greater market share and therefore attracts the attention of nearly all of the exploiters out there. Security by obscurity only gets you so far. The native americans had markedly fewer cases of illness than Europeans initially, and then the Europeans showed up and their germs decimated the natives.

Earth Mk. II · May 25, 2004, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by erage:
I don't believe MS software is inherently more secure than Apple. It's just that MS has 2 orders of magnitude greater market share and therefore attracts the attention of nearly all of the exploiters out there. Security by obscurity only gets you so far. The native americans had markedly fewer cases of illness than Europeans initially, and then the Europeans showed up and their germs decimated the natives.

Except those germs didn't have to worry about running on big or little endian systems... </bad CS joke>

It always pays to be security conscious though, and it's never a bad thing. If a little reminder was needed, then it's probably for the best.

absmiths · May 27, 2004, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by erage:
I don't believe MS software is inherently more secure than Apple. It's just that MS has 2 orders of magnitude greater market share and therefore attracts the attention of nearly all of the exploiters out there. Security by obscurity only gets you so far. The native americans had markedly fewer cases of illness than Europeans initially, and then the Europeans showed up and their germs decimated the natives.

Yeah, I am sure them "Europeans" packed their worst germs before the trip over . . .

absmiths · May 27, 2004, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
I don't endorse writing Trojan horses, viruses, worms, and the like. But frankly, this whole episode needed to happen. It's long past time we started taking security seriously as a community, and if these exploits get us to start doing that, then in the end a great deal of good will have come from them.

I don't see this happening. People who dwell on security always will, and people who don't will use defaults. If Apple tightens things down, then overall things will get better - unless it is obtrusive in which case it will get worse. The IT guys here are constantly complaining because MS releases some great new "feature" like embedding executables into email and so we upgrade only to have to disable the feature when it gets exploited - all the while MS acts like it is your fault for having the feature turned on.

Average Joe users are probably never even going to know about any of this - they will just keep using their systems just like the millions of PC users who continue to transmit readily preventable viruses.

Besides, a computer is just a tool - albeit an expensive one. If a hacker gets in there and erases my hard drive there won't be too much lost. It would be far easier to tap into someone's phone line and there is no security on that.

Anyway, perspective is a good thing and I have plenty to stress about already.

dampeoples · May 27, 2004, 01:22 PM

I think it's good in a way, as has been said before, nobody is looking at OS X to derail it, they're too busy looking at Windows. Getting people to pay attention to security, as opposed to taking the ignorant 'OS X is secure, lol' route, might prevent anything from getting too widespread.
Yes, it's just computer stuff, yes you should have backups, but it's still a pain to restore.