[Powerbook]

Will it work/make sense to replace Word/Excel/Powerpoint with their Apple pendants? I'm talking about all possible problems occuring in a 99% Win environment!
I don't know what to think of DataViz' import/export filters, which Apple - if I got it right - includes with AppleWorks.

Regards,
Powerbook

[typoon]

NOt quite yet. Once the update Appleworks with something more for Pro uses then I would say yes. they should have an Apple Office Bundle. The Appleworks type suite and Keynote bundled together. Also once Keynote can open PPT files then Yes in my book it would just about replace powerpoint.

[ink]

Appleworks 6 is simply horrible. Running OpenOffice under Apple's X11 server is a HUGE improvement. TextEdit is a HUGE improvement too... :-)

[Chuckit]

AppleWorks is not ready to replace anything except Bomb.app.

[wataru]

Originally posted by ink:
Appleworks 6 is simply horrible. Running OpenOffice under Apple's X11 server is a HUGE improvement. TextEdit is a HUGE improvement too... :-)

I find NeoOffice/J to be better than regular X11 OO.o.

[Millennium]

Sad but true, AppleWorks is the original Bad Carbon Port.

No, I really mean it. This is quite literally the app that gave Carbon a bad name, all the way back in the days of the Public Beta. It was one of the first Carbon ports, and so some nastiness could be forgiven, but even by the standards of the time the porting job was abysmal.

This is a shame, because it was quite good on OS9, and it hasn't lost any of its functionality. You can actually do quite a lot with it. Unfortunately, it hasn't gained any functionality since then, and it integrates with OSX so poorly that it looks much worse than it actually is.

I still use it for quite a few tasks, actually, but my word processing needs are fairly scant today anyway. The spreadsheet is respectable, though, and the draw/paint tools are OK for low-end use. The database isn't useful for much more than mail merge, but it gets the job done there. It's even got a basic Presentation module; PowerPoint it isn't, but again for basic use it's not bad.

Can it replace MSOffice? That depends on what you use it for. Draw/Paint beats Office hands down, but then, Office doesn't try to compete in that area. Presentation doesn't even come close (though Keynote does). Access and the AppleWorks database are about on par functionality-wise, but Access wins because of its use as a tool for accessing real databases. As for word processing and spreadsheets, neither one can truly beat the MS offerings, but they're not trying to do that, and unless you use some of the really esoteric features of Word or Excel then AppleWorks will be adequate.

Don't expect much from the user experience, though.

[MartiNZ]

I think that eventually this would certainly be possible, and definitely a good idea. Unfortunately AppleWorks 6 has been stagnating since the port, even with the occasional point point updates!

A brand new cocoa implementation with all the anti-aliasing beauty that OS X has to offer and a feature-set to compete with Word in its word processing function would be a great thing for AppleWorks. As has been said, the draw and paint functions are unique there, and now with Keynote, the presentation module could really be removed ... but for the price of Keynote, and dare I say it, the learning curve in using Keynote, over Powerpoint for instance. IMO, the Apple font and colour panels are just not as easy to use as the many-years-in-the-making MS Office way!

[Jonesy]

Originally posted by typoon:
Also once Keynote can open PPT files then Yes in my book it would just about replace powerpoint.

I don't know what you mean about .ppt files. Keynote does open them pretty well. Maybe not perfect but it usually works with almost no tweaking. It also exports to .ppt files well enough.

As far as AppleWorks goes though a complete replacement couldn't come soon enough. It does work under OS X but it looks and behaves painfully. NeoOffice/J is good but is still a bit X11 / Windows for me and a bit clunky. I can't wait for the Aqua OpenOffice in 2006.

Apple should kill AppleWorks now or replace it. It is an embarrassment to the company.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by MartiNZ:
A brand new cocoa implementation with all the anti-aliasing beauty that OS X has to offer and a feature-set to compete with Word in its word processing function would be a great thing for AppleWorks.

There is no need for AppleWorks to be Cocoa, and a very good reason to keep it Carbon: it would be of immense help in shaking out the last few holes in the Carbon API. All we need is development effort of some kind; a total rewroite -which a Cocoa port would entail- would hardly be necessary. Cocoa-zealotry is pointless.

This is, truth be told, the real reason that I wish 10.0's Finder had been Cocoa. They already had a decent file manager there, and the work spent to port it to Carbon could have gone into AppleWorks instead. AppleWorks would have made a much better dogfood app.

[MartiNZ]

Right, yeah - from what I understand that was a pretty bad decision made right from the start! Anyway, I only suggest Cocoa because it seems to be one of the big deals for people around here - I don't fully understand the implications of the differences, although from what I've learnt recently about using fonts like Symbol in Cocoa, yes a word processor type app probably would be better in Carbon anyway.

Just what AppleWorks could have become otherwise, I guess we will never know ... or at least not until we can go back in time . But I think it would be nice at least to have some parts of it reborn ... and maybe with Tiger.

[itai195]

It would take a lot for AppleWorks to catch up with Word and Excel. Perhaps home users don't use many of the more advanced features of those apps, but a lot of business/professional users do. Regardless of feature parity, I'm not sure AppleWorks would ever be able to fill the 'perception gap' caused by a lack of future Office releases on the Mac.

[mitchell_pgh]

Apple needs to get behind the Open Source community and all the people being hurt by the M$ Office monopoly and release an Open Source Office suite for OS X, XP, 2000, Linux and a few flavors of Unix. People like IBM, Dell, HP, SGI, Sun etc. must realize that it would really hurt Microsoft and make their platforms more of a viable option for more mainstream users.

Once people see that you shouldn't be paying $400 for an application that should cost $40... I think they will wake up.

It's not 1980 anymore...

[psk-ele]

wataru,

Thanks for the tip on NeoOfficeJ. Always looking for a good MS Office replacement!

[wataru]

Originally posted by psk-ele:
wataru,

Thanks for the tip on NeoOfficeJ. Always looking for a good MS Office replacement!

Neo/J is pretty cool. And version 0.8.3 will be out very soon, so keep an eye out for it. Download from the University of Wisconsin mirror if you want to save the developer some bandwidth; UW has a fat pipe!

[itai195]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Apple needs to get behind the Open Source community and all the people being hurt by the M$ Office monopoly and release an Open Source Office suite for OS X, XP, 2000, Linux and a few flavors of Unix. People like IBM, Dell, HP, SGI, Sun etc. must realize that it would really hurt Microsoft and make their platforms more of a viable option for more mainstream users.

I was disappointed that the StarOffice rumors of a couple years ago didn't pan out. StarOffice is actually starting to get some respectability, analysts like Gartner are doing real TCO comparisons between Windows/MS Office, Windows/StarOffice, and Linux/StarOffice desktop platforms. OTOH, I'd still rather have MS Office on the Mac, and Apple helping Sun port StarOffice may persuade MS to stop supporting us. I have to admit, MS Office is a good product... if only it wasn't so expensive.