[timmerk]

Will Apple let you connect to 2 diff networks at once with one airport card? I don't want to lose internet if I am listening to music on my stereo.

[JLFanboy]

Maybe I don't understand. Why would you lose the internet? You'd be getting the internet and streaming your music over the same AirPort network. All AirTunes does is connect to your existing network and reroute the audio coming from iTunes.

At least, as is my understanding.

[timmerk]

No, if I was using another base station and just using Express for audio.

[zachs]

I think what happens is this. You are connected to a Base Station, which is connected to the internet. You also have AP Express plugged in. iTunes will broadcast the audio through whatever wireless network you're on, which will then send it over to the AP Express.

[chabig]

Yes. You can be on the internet and listen to music over your stereo at the same time.

Chris

[JLFanboy]

Right. You've got one AirPort network with several devices on it, each performing a different task. Before, only your base station and computer accessed the network. Now, your AirPort Express will also access the same network and perform a new task (receiving streamed music).

[Angus_D]

The AirPort Express will also act as a repeater basestation for your existing network, extending its range. It'll still be the same network, though.

[mdc]

like angus_d said. put your current airport basestation somewhere in your house and put the airport express near your stereo. then the two basestations will join to make one big network.

that is my plan for the airport express.

[timmerk]

What if I use a diff brand of basestation?

[tooki]

Then you'd have to connect the AP Express to the other one with a cable, and then it would still become part of the same network.

tooki

[chabig]

I'm not so sure the Airport Express base station won't work with other brands of equipment. It's an IEEE standard, after all. Furthermore, we know the Express base station is new, and we know iTunes 4.6 is new, but Apple hasn't given any hints that firmware updates are required for existing Airport base stations.

Chris

[mitchell_pgh]

I'm probably going to hold off on picking this up until there are some solid reviews. Sounds like a bunch of technical info is still up in the air.

[bmedina]

Originally posted by timmerk:
What if I use a diff brand of basestation?

It will work fine, but the Express will not be able to act as a repeater. In that situation, it is just another 802.11 device connected to the wireless AP. Alternatively, the Express could be its own network, separate from the other wireless AP.

I'm probably going to hold off on picking this up until there are some solid reviews. Sounds like a bunch of technical info is still up in the air.

Not really, all the info in this thread is on Apple's page for the Airport Express. What technical information is missing?

[Powaqqatsi]

Would AirTunes use a lot of bandwidth ? Or just the 128kbps (or 192, 256 etc. depending on your encoding) ? Or would it use enough to lower internet-performance on a 802.11b (11Mbit) network ?

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Would AirTunes use a lot of bandwidth ? Or just the 128kbps (or 192, 256 etc. depending on your encoding) ? Or would it use enough to lower internet-performance on a 802.11b (11Mbit) network ?

From what I read on Slashdot it re-encodes the music to an encrypted form of Apple Lossless on-the-fly. Lossless runs at about .5-.9 mbps. So unless you somehow have need of the entire 11 mbps you shouldn't need to worry what AirTunes is eating.

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
From what I read on Slashdot it re-encodes the music to an encrypted form of Apple Lossless on-the-fly. Lossless runs at about .5-.9 mbps. So unless you somehow have need of the entire 11 mbps you shouldn't need to worry what AirTunes is eating.

ok, thx. Probably won't give any problems with my 3MbDOWN/192kbUP ADSL

[CatOne]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
ok, thx. Probably won't give any problems with my 3MbDOWN/192kbUP ADSL

The Airtunes traffic is not going to be going over your ADSL, so it doesn't matter!

Mac OS X fully supports multihoming -- you can be connected to multiple networks simultaneously, exchanging traffic on all of them at the same time.

For example, you can have the network cable plugged in, AND you can use Airport at the same time. You'll have a separate IP address for each, and the traffic for each will work fine. Networking (TCP/IP) works this way -- there are multiple network "routes" and it can figure out how to send which network traffic to which location.

So, for example, you can connect your Airport directly to your cable modem, and surf the web. You can also have your Airport Express sending Airtunes traffic wirelessly to the PowerBook, at the same time. No problem at all. OS X has been capable of this since the NeXTStep days.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by CatOne:
Mac OS X fully supports multihoming -- you can be connected to multiple networks simultaneously, exchanging traffic on all of them at the same time.So, for example, you can connect your Airport directly to your cable modem, and surf the web. You can also have your Airport Express sending Airtunes traffic wirelessly to the PowerBook, at the same time. No problem at all. OS X has been capable of this since the NeXTStep days. [/B]

Not really anything to do with multihoming, though, nor OS X -- it's just bog-standard IP behaviour. It's just that if you have a LAN which is bridged with the internet via a router (AirPort base station, or whatever), the traffic between machines on your LAN will not be sent out over the internet (that'd be horribly inefficient and pointless).

[timmerk]

I guess what I am trying to ask is, can one airport card connect to more than 1 AP at once, or will it be able to? Think of this situation: you use this JUST for streaming audio to your stereo in your basement. You access your AP, which is upstairs, but you barley get signal from your laptop on your ground floor. Then what do you do? There is not ethernet cable in the basement. I'm I out of luck? If so, it's ok, I'm just wondering.

[cpac]

Originally posted by timmerk:
I guess what I am trying to ask is, can one airport card connect to more than 1 AP at once, or will it be able to? Think of this situation: you use this JUST for streaming audio to your stereo in your basement. You access your AP, which is upstairs, but you barley get signal from your laptop on your ground floor. Then what do you do? There is not ethernet cable in the basement. I'm I out of luck? If so, it's ok, I'm just wondering.

I think people have explained things as clearly as possible.

There are two possibilities:

(1) you've got an airport express & an airport base station

(2) you've got an airport express & a non-apple 802.11b/g router

In both cases, the airport express, the base station, and the computer can ALL BE ON THE SAME NETWORK. The only difference is that if it's not an Apple Base Station, the Airport Express cannot act as an additional broadcasting point, but only as a client on the network. It doesn't matter whether you use the Airport Express only for streaming music or not.

I'd try to explain using your basement example, but it's horribly unclear what things are where (and what you mean by "AP").

[itai195]

timmerk- I don't know if I understand what you're asking. If the laptop is downstairs within range of the Airport Express, it will be able to access the Airport Express regardless of whether it still gets a signal from your base station upstairs. What you obviously may not get is access to the Internet through your upstairs base station, because you don't have a signal, but AirTunes doesn't need Internet access.

This is all possible, the only thing you'd have to do is figure out how to configure things. If your Airport Express is out of range of your upstairs base station, you'll have to configure it to broadcast its own wireless network, and you can configure your laptop for multi-homing as someone else mentioned... or just manually switch to the Airport Express' wireless network.

[OAW]

I'm sorry guys, but the information at Apple's website is definitely not clear and the explanations here, while better, aren't completely clear as well. I'm not exactly sure what Timmerk is asking so I won't comment on that. However, I am unclear on whether or not Airport Express will meet my needs. Here's the deal ...

I have a cable modem and a Snow ABS in the basement. The cable modem is plugged into one of the ports on the back of the ABS, and the other port has a cable going to the iMac. I don't know which one is the WAN port or the LAN port offhand because I'm not the networking guru. All I know is that my iMac is "hardwired" and does not access the internet wirelessly. Additionally, I have an iBook 700 that floats and communicates with the ABS wirelessly. Now I am considering getting an AirPort Express, and the only thing I need it to do is stream music to my home theater that is upstairs in the living room. (Actually, it should stream iPhoto content as well but that's the subject for another post!) I do not need to use it as a base station and access the internet through it since I already have a snow ABS. Again, the only thing it needs to do is pipe audio into my home theater. So my question is, can it do this when I'm using a Snow ABS? I say Apple's website is unclear for the following reason:

On the one hand this page (http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/airtunes.html) says this ...

AirPort Express works with iTunes to make listening to your iTunes music library through your home stereo or powered speakers not only a possibility but a snap.(1) Whether your stereo or powered speakers are located in your living room, bedroom or basement, just plug it or them into the audio port on the AirPort Express Base Station using an audio cable. iTunes automatically detects the connection. When you open iTunes on your AirPort-equipped Mac or Wi-Fi-compliant PC, you’ll see a popup list at the bottom right of the iTunes window showing your remote speakers. Select it, click play and your stereo becomes the world’s greatest digital jukebox.

The bold portion simply says "AirPort" or "Wi-Fi compliant". It does not distinguish between the B and G flavors leading one to think that either will work for this purpose. But then the page goes on to say this ....

If you already have a wireless network in place, you can use AirTunes to add music to its capabilities. Let’s say you have AirPort Extreme set up in your den. There’s no need to scrap this setup and create a whole new one with an AirPort Express Base Station, your DSL or cable modem, printer and stereo all in one place. Simply connect AirPort Express to your stereo in your favorite music room and plug it into an electrical outlet — it wirelessly links to your existing network, letting you play your music in your room of choice without moving anything or connecting anything else.

This passage says you can add music to an existing "wireless network", but goes on to give an example referencing "AirPort Extreme". So will any "wireless network" work ... using any B or G base station, or is an "AirPort Extreme" base station required? It is confusing because there is a footnote on another page on the site that explicitly states the following:

AirPort Extreme and AirPort Express can extend the range only of an AirPort Extreme or AirPort Express wireless network.

This footnote was referenced from a passage that spoke about using the Airport Express as a wireless bridge. Is one "bridging" an existing wireless network in order to stream audio wirelessly, or are the "audio streaming" and "bridging" features of the Airport Express two completely distinct features that aren't related?

The bottom line is this ....

I have an iBook that connects to a Snow ABS (802.11b) to access the internet and my iMac in the basement. My iTunes library is on the iMac. I can get to the tracks in that library from my iBook using the Rendezvous-based library sharing feature in iTunes. So currently, I can fire up iTunes on my iBook and wirelessly play the tracks stored in the iTunes library on my iMac. The only problem is that I have to listen to the audio with headphones or the crappy speakers on the iBook. I would like to be able to stream the audio from iTunes on my iBook over my existing 802.11b network into my home theater ... using Salling Clicker and my Bluetooth cellphone as the remote. If I purchase an Airport Express and plug it into my home theater, will this be sufficient to get the audio into my home theater with my existing setup? Or do I have to upgrade my base station to an Airport Extreme? Or do I have to ditch my base station and plug my internet connection into the Airport Express, thus, using it as a base station?

And just to add another wrinkle, what about "Scenario B" where the iBook is taken out of the equation and I simply want to fire up iTunes on my iMac which is hardwired into the snow ABS and stream the audio to the home theater upstairs via the AirPort Express? Will that work as well?

Thanks in advance for any clarification!

OAW

[himself]

Since Airport Extreme is compatible with 802.11b devices, I think it is safe to assume that Airport Express is compatible with both as well, unless they explicitly say otherwise (In fact, it does say on the website that both b and g are supported).

So, the way I understand it, it works like this. AP Express is just like any other wireless device. It can connect (wirelessly) to your base station (just like a ibook/powerbook) and communicate with any device on that network. And, since your laptop is airport equipped, it can also connect directly to it (or any airport equipped device) without the assistance of an airport base station, and without a network connection.

If the AP Express is within range of any airport device, you can connect to it. So, if your iMac is connected to your base station via ethernet, the iMac can still see the AP Express, as long as it is within range of the base station. Therefore, your iMac can transmit your music through the ethernet cable to the base station, and then to the AP Express.

I'm not certain on this last point, but I believe that whatever you can play on iTunes (including a library from another computer), can be transmitted to the AP Express. So, if you are listening to music from your iMac on your iBook, you select the stereo system connected to your AP Express from Airtunes, and that is where the music will transmit. I say that I am uncertain about this, because I do know that you can't re-share music from your iMac with another computer via your iBook.

If you're still confused, look at this diagram for a graphical explanation.

[itai195]

OAW, I agree that Apple's page is confusing. I don't see any reason they'd lock AirTunes into an AirPort-only network, that would be pretty stupid after they've gone to all the effort to implement standards in their wireless products.

Read the How AirTunes Works section here. It's information from an Apple executive. This section might be more relevant to your questions:

Essentially, AirTunes is a method of creating remote speakers for a copy of iTunes, and sending data to those remote speakers via a wireless network. That network can be formed by connecting an AirPort Express to another AirPort Express, to an AirPort Extreme Base Station, or even to a non-apple 802.11b or 802.11g access point.

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by CatOne:
The Airtunes traffic is not going to be going over your ADSL, so it doesn't matter!

I know this . But I wondered if AirTunes could saturate the 11Mbit connection between my Mac and the Airport Express Station to a point that my internet-connection would suffer.

[bmedina]

Originally posted by OAW:
I have an iBook that connects to a Snow ABS (802.11b) to access the internet and my iMac in the basement. My iTunes library is on the iMac. I can get to the tracks in that library from my iBook using the Rendezvous-based library sharing feature in iTunes. So currently, I can fire up iTunes on my iBook and wirelessly play the tracks stored in the iTunes library on my iMac. The only problem is that I have to listen to the audio with headphones or the crappy speakers on the iBook. I would like to be able to stream the audio from iTunes on my iBook over my existing 802.11b network into my home theater ... using Salling Clicker and my Bluetooth cellphone as the remote. If I purchase an Airport Express and plug it into my home theater, will this be sufficient to get the audio into my home theater with my existing setup?

Yes. Your iBook just has to be within range of the Airport Express and the Airport Base Station simultaneously. Anything you can play on your iBook you'll be able to play on a stereo connected to an Airport Express. Don't worry about B/G or Apple/3rd-party. It will work

And just to add another wrinkle, what about "Scenario B" where the iBook is taken out of the equation and I simply want to fire up iTunes on my iMac which is hardwired into the snow ABS and stream the audio to the home theater upstairs via the AirPort Express? Will that work as well?

Yes, that will work if the Airport Express is in range of the Snow Base Station. The Airport Express would then be on the same network as the iMac. Anything you can play in iTunes you'll be able to play on a stereo connected to an Airport Express.

[southtdi]

Originally posted by itai195:
OAW, I agree that Apple's page is confusing. I don't see any reason they'd lock AirTunes into an AirPort-only network, that would be pretty stupid after they've gone to all the effort to implement standards in their wireless products.

Read the How AirTunes Works section here. It's information from an Apple executive. This section might be more relevant to your questions:

Tha's exactly how i got the impression it worked. Apple should have made it a little clearer but they didn't.

If you use an Airport basestation then the Express can act as a repeater.

If you use a third party basestation (wireless) then the Express is another node on the network only. No signal is repeatedbut music can stil be streamed to it.

I am going to use it the second way myself. I am going to play with the antenna range since it has no external antenna and is a little plug-in box (meaning bad locations for placement) and see if it is any good. If so I may just order another one in the future and replace my third party router.

Actually thinking of this, other than the 10 node limit, why would you want to spend over $100 more for a regular basestation since it seems to be the same thing as the basic basestation? No external antenna or 56k modem output but since the express is inexpensive and can repeat that makes them a better sloution in the long run anyway.

[southtdi]

Originally posted by itai195:
OAW, I agree that Apple's page is confusing. I don't see any reason they'd lock AirTunes into an AirPort-only network, that would be pretty stupid after they've gone to all the effort to implement standards in their wireless products.

Read the How AirTunes Works section here. It's information from an Apple executive. This section might be more relevant to your questions:

Tha's exactly how i got the impression it worked. Apple should have made it a little clearer but they didn't.

-> If you use an Airport basestation then the Express can act as a repeater.

-> If you use a third party basestation (wireless) then the Express is another node on the network only. No signal is repeatedbut music can stil be streamed to it.

I am going to use it the second way myself. I am going to play with the antenna range since it has no external antenna and is a little plug-in box (meaning bad locations for placement) and see if it is any good. If so I may just order another one in the future and replace my third party router.

Actually thinking of this, other than the 10 node limit, why would you want to spend over $100 more for a regular basestation since it seems to be the same thing as the basic basestation? No external antenna or 56k modem output but since the express is inexpensive and can repeat that makes them a better sloution in the long run anyway.

[OAW]

Ok, so If I have it all straight now then an Airport Express can be used in the following ways:

A. If you plug an DSL/Cable modem into it and use it as a base station then an Airport Express can provide wireless network and internet connectivity to any 802.11b or 802.11g client.

B. If you are already using an Airport Extreme (or another Airport Express) as an 802.11g base station (not third-party), then an Airport Express can be used as a bridge to extend the range of the wireless network created by the base station.

C. If you are already using any 802.11b or 802.11g base station (Apple or third-party), then an Airport Express can provide AirTunes functionality and stream iTunes audio to a stereo from any computer on the wireless network that is in the range of the Airport Express.

D. Any combination of A, B, and/or C.

Thanks guys for all the info!

OAW

[itai195]

Yup. And it can also be a print server

I may end up getting a second one to replace my third party router/access point if I have to do that in order to get the wifi-to-ethernet bridging I'd like to have. No big deal, my third party stuff isn't working very well as it is...

[OAW]

Ok. Let me add another wrinkle to this. What I was really hoping for was an Apple set-top box like the that could play ITMS tracks. Unfortunately, Apple didn't do that so we still don't have an Apple solution that can show iPhoto content on a TV as well as play iTunes tracks on a stereo. Now the EyeHome can operate wirelessly, but it needs to be plugged into a device to enable a wireless connection. Elgato recommends the D-Link DWL-G810 Wireless 802.11g Bridge Adapter. I was wondering if the the EyeHome could be plugged into an Airport Express to achieve the same functionality? If so, then would I need an Airport Extreme base station as well since the word "bridge" is used in the D-Link product name?

OAW

[bmedina]

Originally posted by southtdi:
Tha's exactly how i got the impression it worked. Apple should have made it a little clearer but they didn't.

-> If you use an Airport basestation then the Express can act as a repeater.

-> If you use a third party basestation (wireless) then the Express is another node on the network only. No signal is repeatedbut music can stil be streamed to it.

From Apple's page:

You can use AirPort Express as a wireless bridge to extend the range of your primary base station.(5) ... 5. AirPort Extreme and AirPort Express can extend the range only of an AirPort Extreme or AirPort Express wireless network.

Seems pretty clear to me.

I was wondering if the the EyeHome could be plugged into an Airport Express to achieve the same functionality? If so, then would I need an Airport Extreme base station as well since the word "bridge" is used in the D-Link product name?

Well, the Express only has one ethernet port. If you plug the eyeHome into that port, you can't use it to plug into a cable/dsl modem. So you'll need another base station connected to the modem or a hub/switch attached to the Express to give it more connectivity than its single port allows.

The D-Link product is only a bridge. The Express can act as a bridge/repeater or as a router.

[itai195]

Originally posted by OAW:
Ok. Let me add another wrinkle to this. What I was really hoping for was an Apple set-top box like the that could play ITMS tracks. Unfortunately, Apple didn't do that so we still don't have an Apple solution that can show iPhoto content on a TV as well as play iTunes tracks on a stereo. Now the EyeHome can operate wirelessly, but it needs to be plugged into a device to enable a wireless connection. Elgato recommends the D-Link DWL-G810 Wireless 802.11g Bridge Adapter. I was wondering if the the EyeHome could be plugged into an Airport Express to achieve the same functionality? If so, then would I need an Airport Extreme base station as well since the word "bridge" is used in the D-Link product name?

OAW

Ahh, this is still the big question for me too. I'm looking to use mine for something similar. I *think* it will work, because wifi-to-ethernet bridging is a different beast than acting as a repeater, but there is nothing definitive saying it will work yet. I don't think any proprietary extensions are necessary for this kind of bridging, because I already have a Linksys bridge that works just fine with my Netgear access point. I guess I'll find out when my Express arrives.

[SomeToast]

Originally posted by OAW:
What I was really hoping for was an Apple set-top box like the that could play ITMS tracks. Unfortunately, Apple didn't do that so we still don't have an Apple solution that can show iPhoto content on a TV as well as play iTunes tracks on a stereo.

Sure we do.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by OAW:
What I was really hoping for was an Apple set-top box like the that could play ITMS tracks. Unfortunately, Apple didn't do that so we still don't have an Apple solution that can show iPhoto content on a TV as well as play iTunes tracks on a stereo.

I'm with you. I think a TV set top box would be interesting. The down side is, there are too many variables to consider when designing such a unit. Do you do HD? What about video, then you have legal issues you need to worry about.

It's an idea, but we will just have to wait and see.

[OAW]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I'm with you. I think a TV set top box would be interesting. The down side is, there are too many variables to consider when designing such a unit. Do you do HD? What about video, then you have legal issues you need to worry about.

It's an idea, but we will just have to wait and see.

I really don't care about video that much personally. I have UltimateTV (yes it's a RCA/Microsoft product that's not made anymore but I still think it's better than the DirecTivo!) and a DVD player so I'm covered when it comes to that. What I want is to be able to easily listen to my iTunes tracks ... and play the ITMS tracks that no third-party product can currently play. And I also want to be able to view my iPhoto library and slideshows (music and all) on the home theater to be able to really get some added value from my digital camera. A set top box like the EyeHome would do that just fine. If it had video capabilities then fine, but if it didn't I wouldn't care. iTunes and iPhoto content on my home theater is what I really want. But it looks like I'll have to settle for just the former right now.

OAW