[bergy]

I'm pretty upset. I'm sure this probably happens a lot. My daughter wants a computer in her room. I am going to have to go out and buy a PC because she wants to run MSN and her web cam for video messaging. All of her friends use MSN so there is no other option.
I wonder how many Apple sales are being lost because of this situation. Bummer ...

[Keiretsu]

You know that MSN4 exists for Mac (albeit with no support for Webcams I guess).

[nooon]

I actually don't think it's very common that people decide which computer they're gonna buy based on IM clients.

[Krypton]

Originally posted by nooon:
I actually don't think it's very common that people decide which computer they're gonna buy based on IM clients.

You'd be surprised. Reason enough that MSN 4 Mac won't have webcam support for many years.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by bergy:
I'm pretty upset. I'm sure this probably happens a lot. My daughter wants a computer in her room. I am going to have to go out and buy a PC because she wants to run MSN and her web cam for video messaging. All of her friends use MSN so there is no other option.
I wonder how many Apple sales are being lost because of this situation. Bummer ...

Your daughter wants a webcam in her room? Fear the worst, my friend.

My daughter won't even be having an unsupervised web connection until she can afford to buy her own computer, nevermind having unsupervised web-chats.

[Luca Rescigno]

At least PCs are cheap. You can build a cheapshit PC with a webcam that still gets the job done for $250, and that will leave enough money to also buy a Mac (assuming you need one that is).

My advice with regard to PCs - never spend over $500 on one unless you MUST.

[Horsepoo!!!]

How to become a cheap internet slut for $250!!!!

[bmedina]

Wait, so you're going to buy your kid a new computer just so she can video chat with her friends? She's not spoiled at all, eh....

[Mike S.]

Her friends could always download and use an AIM compatible client, it's not like it's difficult or costs anything.

I read someplace that the Adium folks have mutli-protocol audio/video support planned somewhere down the line but I don't imagine it's anytime soon.

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by Mike S.:
Her friends could always download and use an AIM compatible client, it's not like it's difficult or costs anything.

I read someplace that the Adium folks have mutli-protocol audio/video support planned somewhere down the line but I don't imagine it's anytime soon.

It's dependent on the GAIM developers, and I believe they have it off on a branch to mature for a while. I suppose one might be able to get very weird video support by building the libGAIM video branch and Adium, but I doubt it would work.

[Sarc]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
How to become a cheap internet slut for $250!!!!

that's quite offensive don't you think ?

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by Mike S.:
Her friends could always download and use an AIM compatible client, it's not like it's difficult or costs anything.

You're being a bit simplistic here.

And yes, I don't find it hard to believe that people chose their computer based on IM apps. IM is very important, especially for kids.

And Luca, a PC for $250 ?? I sure wish it was possible here. I would do it in a heartbeat and put it to slavery as a fileserver.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by Sarc:
that's quite offensive don't you think ?

Did I hurt your feelings?

[Thain Esh Kelch]

Originally posted by Sarc:
that's quite offensive don't you think ?

Actually, I kind of agree with him... You dont wanna know what your children are doing on the web, especially not with a webcam...

And anyways, Skype is heading for mac in the next few weeks, beta has already started. Wouldnt she be pleased with just voice-to-voice chat?
Its pretty stupid to buy a whole new computer just for video-chat...

[Maharaja]

Can u use MSN6.2's webcam in Virtual PC?

[ginoledesma]

I don't see why this is a real problem. It seems that you want to "keep her on a Mac" but cannot because MSN Messenger for Mac doesn't have the features your daughter "needs." Also, I'm assuming you had a spare Mac to begin with so you wouln't have to buy one which would probably come out more expensive than a low-end PC.

If her need to get online to chat with her friends is what you've to accomplish, then you have the following options:
- Get her and her friends to try out AIM on the PC, iChat for her on the Mac
- Get them to try out Yahoo Messenger (the latest versions)
- Buy a low-end PC and get it over with

Microsoft isn't exactly "obligated" to bringing up MSN Messenger on the Mac up to par with the Windows version. Its a marketing tactic. After all, we also have that with the iApps.

But I guess you already know this.

So why not have a talk with your daughter (and/or wife) about this. A computer, after all, is an 'investment' for the kids. Unless you've got lots of cash to burn and don't mind letting your kid stay up all night with a broadband connection.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Maharaja:
Can u use MSN6.2's webcam in Virtual PC?

I guess it might be if you had a USB webcam, never tried. I know someone who tried it with an iSight and couldn't get it to work (I think VPC doesn't make your firewire devices available to the emulated environment or something).

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Catfish_Man:
It's dependent on the GAIM developers, and I believe they have it off on a branch to mature for a while. I suppose one might be able to get very weird video support by building the libGAIM video branch and Adium, but I doubt it would work.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gaim-vv. I don't think anybody's figured out the MSN webcam protocol stuff yet. It's on my long list of "things to do if I can be bothered and have a spare moment", but don't get your hopes up.

[Sod Off Sadr]

Originally posted by Maharaja:
Can u use MSN6.2's webcam in Virtual PC?

ha. even if it'd work, the video quality and responsiveness would be horrible.

[juanvaldes]

tell her to suck it up. I was so happy when I got a LC III back in the day in my room I think she can live. Damn...kids these days.

[storer]

whoever said it is right: its a major marketing tactic: I am hugely disappointed with MSN Messenger for Mac. But why would Microsoft create another FREE reason why to buy an opposition computer: a Mac.

[storer]

I just came up with another idea! Why isn't Apple making a kick butt of MSN Chat Client for Mac and Windows. Make it absolutely awesomely cool and hip (4 the kiddies) yet have 2 modes: business and fun or somethign. Apple can easily pack it with better technology and smarter features and integrate it into the Mac OS. It would also make the people go: ooohh, look what apple makes. i wonder how good their computers are. and Apple Messenger works better on a mac, maybe we should get mummy and daddy to buy me one. What does everyone else think of this idea. by keeping the windows version reasonably even to the mac, they show that they aren't greedy, yet still show off that it works better on the mac.!

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by storer:
I just came up with another idea! Why isn't Apple making a kick butt of MSN Chat Client for Mac and Windows

Because I doubt Microsoft would license them the protocol.

[storer]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
Because I doubt Microsoft would license them the protocol.

i wasnt suggesting that they would. start a whole new chat client and have PC users using another fantastic apple product: apples proposed messenger.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by storer:
i wasnt suggesting that they would. start a whole new chat client and have PC users using another fantastic apple product: apples proposed messenger.

It wouldn't be compatible with MSN and therefore useless for those who want to chat with MSN folks. Apple already has iChat...and it's fun to use if your friends are smart.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by storer:
i wasnt suggesting that they would. start a whole new chat client and have PC users using another fantastic apple product: apples proposed messenger.

That's why they hooked up with AOL when they made that iShit app. Unless some sweeping changes have happened in the IM market AIM was still kicking MSN's ass. Everyone should be using multi-clients anyway.

[Ibson]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
Unless some sweeping changes have happened in the IM market AIM was still kicking MSN's ass

I should probably point out that in Australia (where storer is from) and NZ, no one uses anything but MSN Messenger. AIM is practically unheard of. Which means iChat is basically useless for all of us.

[storer]

Originally posted by Ibson:
I should probably point out that in Australia (where storer is from) and NZ, no one uses anything but MSN Messenger. AIM is practically unheard of. Which means iChat is basically useless for all of us.

Good point. No-one uses Yahoo. I know some people who tried MIRC and didn't like it, and I once tried ICQ.
and also, Horsepoo, i wasnt suggesting it be compatible. I suggest it kick MSN's but and get the Windows kiddies using it because it was cooler. Apple has done it before: look at iMac and iPod. They are the only products apple has made that most PC users know about. That is because apple made them hip and cool, so kids got into them, and they became popular. Why can't they do the same with an IM?

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by Ibson:
I should probably point out that in Australia (where storer is from) and NZ, no one uses anything but MSN Messenger. AIM is practically unheard of. Which means iChat is basically useless for all of us.

true, pockets develop where everyone uses one service. It's like that with AIM in the US for the most part. I hear MSN is that way over in europe (I'm sure to be corrected). Don't use any service but AIM myself and have never ran into someone without it. Still think muti-clients are the way to go unless the whole world gives AOL, Yahoo and MS the finger and everyone switches to jabber.

[nJm]

So can PC users using AIM do video/audio chat with iChat users? That would be very useful.

I still use a PC in the house for MSN video/audio chat but the quality is terrible and it drops out quite a bit. I used iChat for the first time the other night, I don't have an iSight, but I did a single-way video chat with my friend in another city. The quality was amazing compared to MSN (on MSN we use Logitech Quickcam Pro 4000 cameras), and completely fluid, no stuttering or dropped video. Now I just need to convince my relatives overseas to replace their new PCs with Macs and an iSight.

[MindFad]

Originally posted by nJm:
So can PC users using AIM do video/audio chat with iChat users? That would be very useful.

Yep! I've used it with my PC friends before.

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
[B]I hear MSN is that way over in europe (I'm sure to be corrected)./B]

Yep, nothing but MSN here in Europe. And others who are saying just let your friends switch to AIM. Please, do you really think that's doable or that it's that simple ? I mean those kids don't know the difference between all this stuff, they just use what they know and there is no chance that you can let them change clients. AIM is nonexistant here. Yahoo the same.

[storer]

exactly: if apple makes a messenger, and the kiddies know apples messenger is cool, they will go to apples site and download it, cos thats what they no is cool: but to do that, Apple would have to come up with some great ideas and do big research.
Thats another point too: they go to apples website and go, oh they make computers too...

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Ibson:
I should probably point out that in Australia (where storer is from) and NZ, no one uses anything but MSN Messenger. AIM is practically unheard of. Which means iChat is basically useless for all of us.

It's the same amongst most people in Europe, too, especially teenagers. At least, it's definitely that way here in the UK, and I've heard that it's also the case on the continent.

[mitchell_pgh]

I would think LONG and HARD before:

1) Giving my daughter a computer for her room
2) Connected a video camera to it

(I'm not making this a Mac vs. PC thing... I'm just looking out for your daughter... Watch Lifetime on Cable for a Saturday)

[Zoom]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
And Luca, a PC for $250 ?? I sure wish it was possible here. I would do it in a heartbeat and put it to slavery as a fileserver.

Check out the barebones systems on PriceWatch. Also, check out the same category at TigerDirect. And then there's Linspire (formerly Lindows). You CAN build a cheap PC for under $250, as long as you don't have to buy a Windows OS. And if you want a file server, I'd use Linux anyway.

[Zoom]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I would think LONG and HARD before:

1) Giving my daughter a computer for her room
2) Connected a video camera to it

(I'm not making this a Mac vs. PC thing... I'm just looking out for your daughter... Watch Lifetime on Cable for a Saturday)

Amen. NOT a good plan. My daughters are too young for this, but when the time comes, they will not have a PC in their room. They will have their own computer, but it will be in a public area of the house.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Zoom:
Check out the barebones systems on PriceWatch. Also, check out the same category at TigerDirect. And then there's Linspire (formerly Lindows). You CAN build a cheap PC for under $250, as long as you don't have to buy a Windows OS. And if you want a file server, I'd use Linux anyway.

Yah, if you want to go bare bones, you may also want to look at wal-mart.com

It's $288, but seems to have the basics... and when it starts giving you trouble, throw it in the trash and start over...

Cheap Computer

[starman]

Uh, yeah, I have two daughters and no videocam for them in their room. If they need to talk to their friends with the cam they can do it in the computer room.

Mike

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by starman:
Uh, yeah, I have two daughters and no videocam for them in their room. If they need to talk to their friends with the cam they can do it in the computer room.

Mike

Yah, the more I look in to it, but less I think it's OK for kids to have computers in their rooms unless you know a TON about computers.

All you need is to discipline your kid and them to find some pervert online that's willing to listen to them...

A horrible horrible mix.

[starman]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Yah, the more I look in to it, but less I think it's OK for kids to have computers in their rooms unless you know a TON about computers.

All you need is to discipline your kid and them to find some pervert online that's willing to listen to them...

A horrible horrible mix.

It is. What's worse is that it's not even a pervert you have to worry about, it's a classmate.

My kids aren't old enough to even have IM yet, but when they do it'll be under supervision, and I'll make damn sure that everything's covered (private address, don't auto-add names, etc.).

Mike

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by starman:
It is. What's worse is that it's not even a pervert you have to worry about, it's a classmate.

My kids aren't old enough to even have IM yet, but when they do it'll be under supervision, and I'll make damn sure that everything's covered (private address, don't auto-add names, etc.).

Mike

Yah, I know you will, but many don't. They think "If you kid is in their room, they are safe". Then they find out that their 16 year old daughter is hanging out with a guy that just got out of prison.

So sad.

[Mike S.]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
And others who are saying just let your friends switch to AIM. Please, do you really think that's doable or that it's that simple ? I mean those kids don't know the difference between all this stuff, they just use what they know and there is no chance that you can let them change clients.

Heaven forbid they be encouraged to learn something new and then perhaps get others to try and do the same.

They learned how to use MSN so how difficult is it to: A) Download a client. B) Sign up for a new name/account C) Use the new client.

Not doable? Are all of these kids suffering from some kind of horrible learning disability? It's not like I'm saying go install Linux or something, it's a new program for goodness' sake. Computer usage 101.

[Horsepoo!!!]

"GO TO YER ROOM, YOUNG GIRL!!! You can't come out until you apologise."

"Yaaaaay!"

---

Somehow I don't think that'll work anymore.

Now it should probably be:

"STAY OUT OF YER ROOM!!! You can't go back in there until you apologise."

[King Bob On The Cob]

You want a hint of what teenagers with raging hormones do on webcams? Just do a search on Xfactor, or Poisoned, or Acquisition, you'll see.

[velodev]

Originally posted by bergy:
because she wants to run MSN and her web cam for video messaging.

Woah, you allow your daughter to run webcams from her room?

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Mike S.:
Heaven forbid they be encouraged to learn something new and then perhaps get others to try and do the same.

They learned how to use MSN so how difficult is it to: A) Download a client. B) Sign up for a new name/account C) Use the new client.

Not doable? Are all of these kids suffering from some kind of horrible learning disability? It's not like I'm saying go install Linux or something, it's a new program for goodness' sake. Computer usage 101.

They're using Windows, where you have to be careful about what programs you install, since you never know if one is going to dump crap all over your hard drive and registry.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
How to become a cheap internet slut for $250!!!!

That's not very nice.

However, you do raise part of a valid concern. Webcams in the hands of youngsters (or even teenagers) can open up quite a few potential problems, and the camwhoring phenomenon is the least of your worries. Of more concern would be the possibility of actual predators stumbling across the video feeds, thus allowing them to identify your daughter much more easily in real life.

My advice: Either no video at all, or not in her room; the Webcam goes someplace "public" (the living room perhaps). Does MSN/Mac have audio support? It's still fairly worrisome, but could make for a compromise point.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Millennium:
That's not very nice.

However, you do raise part of a valid concern. Webcams in the hands of youngsters (or even teenagers) can open up quite a few potential problems, and the camwhoring phenomenon is the least of your worries. Of more concern would be the possibility of actual predators stumbling across the video feeds, thus allowing them to identify your daughter much more easily in real life.

My advice: Either no video at all, or not in her room; the Webcam goes someplace "public" (the living room perhaps). Does MSN/Mac have audio support? It's still fairly worrisome, but could make for a compromise point.

Webcams and kids don't mix. Maybe in the living room... but you still leave yourself open for when you aren't there. They should seriously sell a version with a lock on it for parents.

Let's say that your daughter (in a moment of weakness after breaking up with someone) exposed herself. And the guy at the other end captured that video... I can only imagine how ugly this scenario could get.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by bergy:
I'm pretty upset. I'm sure this probably happens a lot. My daughter wants a computer in her room. I am going to have to go out and buy a PC because she wants to run MSN and her web cam for video messaging. All of her friends use MSN so there is no other option.
I wonder how many Apple sales are being lost because of this situation. Bummer ...

I would be upset, about yourself, BECAUSE YOU WHINE LIKE A SISSY !

Man, take some control of the situation.
Does you daughter get ANYTHING she asks for ?

-t