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Eug Wanker · Jul 22, 2004, 01:34 PM

Perfect timing for the iMac G5 release, for those that need VPC.

Link

gorickey · Jul 22, 2004, 01:36 PM

I expect at least (2) more push-backs...

Horsepoo!!! · Jul 22, 2004, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
I expect at least (2) more push-backs...

Same here. Also, the feature a lot of people are waiting for (VirtualPC actually using the hardware videocard instead of emulating one) will probably be MIA.

It's no secret, Microsoft. We know your dirty tactics. Once you buy a company out, we've got zero guarantees the product will make it to Macs, and if it does, we've got zero guarantees it won't be crippled.

VPC7...released in January 2005...without videocard support.

Millennium · Jul 22, 2004, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
I expect at least (2) more push-backs...

My guess is that any pushbacks will be the fault of XP service pack 2, rather than VPC itself. Microsoft has shown a remarkable habit of pushing back Windows releases for long periods of time -Windows 95 was originally supposed to be released in 1993- and so yet another pushback of sp2 would not exactly be surprising.

Krypton · Jul 22, 2004, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
It's no secret, Microsoft. We know your dirty tactics. Once you buy a company out, we've got zero guarantees the product will make it to Macs, and if it does, we've got zero guarantees it won't be crippled.

Apple aren't exactly innocent of similar tactics...

Horsepoo!!! · Jul 22, 2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Krypton:
Apple aren't exactly innocent of similar tactics...

True...but less guilty. Sure there have been some occasions when a buyout meant no more PC versions or more expensive versions, but for the most part none of the Apple apps are crippled. QT is the same on both platforms. iTunes is the same on both platforms. Apple occasionally plays this game because MS *always* does. Not the other way around.

Windows Media Player on Mac is severely crippled. MSN is also severely crippled. Halo came to Mac 3 years late because of MS. Office 2004 is somewhat crippled...but much less so than the other MS products, thank god.

I'm hoping Apple will buy Adobe out one day and just kill the PC port just to get back at MS.

Krypton · Jul 22, 2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
True...but less guilty. Sure there have been some occasions when a buyout meant no more PC versions or more expensive versions, but for the most part none of the Apple apps are crippled. QT is the same on both platforms. iTunes is the same on both platforms. Apple occasionally plays this game because MS *always* does. Not the other way around.

Windows Media Player on Mac is severely crippled. MSN is also severely crippled. Halo came to Mac 3 years late because of MS. Office 2004 is somewhat crippled...but much less so than the other MS products, thank god.

I'm hoping Apple will buy Adobe out one day and just kill the PC port just to get back at MS.

I'm not sure what to think about the MS:Mac team - the lead dev's weblog says that they have to prioritise their work a lot, because there are far fewer engineers than the Windows side of the business: hence stinky MSN messenger etc.

Adobe seem to be best buddies with MS nowadays, plus that 'Apple stinks' comment inside one of their apps (or whatever it was) didn't go down well.

Angus_D · Jul 22, 2004, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
True...but less guilty. Sure there have been some occasions when a buyout meant no more PC versions or more expensive versions, but for the most part none of the Apple apps are crippled.

Shake. Logic.

QT is the same on both platforms. iTunes is the same on both platforms.

Yeah, those are totally the same sort of thing.

Apple occasionally plays this game because MS *always* does. Not the other way around.

APPLE APOLOGIST ALERT!

Windows Media Player on Mac is severely crippled. MSN is also severely crippled.

Yeah, this sucks. What does that have to do with buying companies and discontinuing products again?

Halo came to Mac 3 years late because of MS.

It came to the PC 3 years late because of MS, too.

Office 2004 is somewhat crippled...but much less so than the other MS products, thank god.

"Crippled" how, exactly?

I'm hoping Apple will buy Adobe out one day and just kill the PC port just to get back at MS.

Yeah, that'd really have a major impact on Microsoft. It might even put them out of business! Way to go Apple! Steve, will you marry me?

Horsepoo!!! · Jul 22, 2004, 04:02 PM

Well Angus_D...I'm glad you enjoy Microsoft's Mac products.

And maybe I'm wrong about Apple products being higher quality on the PC than MS products on the Mac.

And I suppose that it's all good that MS bought Bungie...making Halo 3 years late onto Mac and PC...afterall, it was released...and it's plenty fast.

Yes, I will go marry Steve. Even though Steve was mentioned nowhere in my earlier posts.

Angus_D · Jul 22, 2004, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Well Angus_D...I'm glad you enjoy Microsoft's Mac products.

Actually, I think they generally suck. I just think you're an Apple apologist.

And maybe I'm wrong about Apple products being higher quality on the PC than MS products on the Mac.

QuickTime sucks on the PC, to the extent that it gives Apple a bad name. The MacBU's free stuff generally sucks, but I don't doubt that that's a priorities issue. Mac Office really isn't bad. IMO it sucks less than the PC version. Still, we're talking relative levels of suck here.

And I suppose that it's all good that MS bought Bungie...making Halo 3 years late onto Mac and PC...afterall, it was released...and it's plenty fast.

Where exactly did I say that that was a good thing? It made business sense for both Bungie and Microsoft, so that's what happened. It wasn't really done just to screw those damned Mac users, it's just that the Xbox became priority number one. The whole speed issue is probably more related to Gearbox, who did the PC port. And the quality of the code is completely unrelated to Microsoft in general, since Bungie is like a self-contained entity within Microsoft.

Yes, I will go marry Steve. Even though Steve was mentioned nowhere in my earlier posts.

What does that have to do with anything?

Eug Wanker · Jul 22, 2004, 07:38 PM

Personally I think Office is an excellent product. They need to work on Exchange support though. Remote Desktop Connection also rocks.

I look forward to Virtual PC 7. If I get an iMac G5 to replace my PC, I will get VPC 7.

Windows Media Player isn't great though.

Person Man · Jul 23, 2004, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
My guess is that any pushbacks will be the fault of XP service pack 2, rather than VPC itself. Microsoft has shown a remarkable habit of pushing back Windows releases for long periods of time -Windows 95 was originally supposed to be released in 1993- and so yet another pushback of sp2 would not exactly be surprising.

Exactly. This news is not new. In fact, in May Microsoft basically said the same thing, they were going to wait until XP SP2 was out to ship VPC 7 for the Mac. Link here

Look at the last few lines. Only difference is that there were other delays as well, but they said that the release schedule for XP SP2 would impact the final ship date. (Although, in May, word was that SP2 would ship in July)

KraziKid · Aug 11, 2004, 09:45 AM

Well, XP SP2 has been released, so lets see how long it takes for VPC7 to come out.

fiesta cat · Aug 11, 2004, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
It's no secret, Microsoft. We know your dirty tactics. Once you buy a company out, we've got zero guarantees the product will make it to Macs, and if it does, we've got zero guarantees it won't be crippled.

They may compete with Apple, but they won't turn down an offer to make money off of the Mac platform, and VPC 7 is clearly going to be a big money maker. I'm putting my money on the XP SP2 problems/delays.

It's all about money. If they can't push Apple out of the market, then they will try to make as much as possible off of them.

Ask yourself, do they shed a tear everytime somebody buys VPC with some version of Windows with it? No, they don't think "we are helping the competition".

They think "cool, we sold another copy of Windows, one more statistic we can jot down".

CharlesS · Aug 11, 2004, 11:29 AM

If VPC isn't released in time, well, QEMU was ported to Darwin and it sort of works now...

eevyl · Aug 11, 2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by KraziKid:
Well, XP SP2 has been released, so lets see how long it takes for VPC7 to come out.

Just checked, it's not.

Horsepoo!!! · Aug 11, 2004, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Angus_D:
Actually, I think they generally suck. I just think you're an Apple apologist.

Considering MS is a monopoly, I think Apple, the underdog, needs people like me.

Apple is allowed to do stuff Microsoft isn't because it is not a monopoly in any market. Maybe the internet music store market...but even that is arguable.

Office for Mac (even 2004) is ****ing terrible...don't tell me it's good.

sanity assassin · Aug 11, 2004, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Considering MS is a monopoly, I think Apple, the underdog, needs people like me.

Apple is allowed to do stuff Microsoft isn't because it is not a monopoly in any market. Maybe the internet music store market...but even that is arguable.

I laughed, how about you guys?

Mr Heliums · Aug 11, 2004, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by fiesta cat:
They may compete with Apple, but they won't turn down an offer to make money off of the Mac platform, and VPC 7 is clearly going to be a big money maker.

Exactly. MS makes money on Office and Virtual PC, so it will make them at least usable.

The products that don't make them money, or aren't important in terms of market dominance, are the ones that suffer: IE, MSN Messanger, Windows Media Player, etc.

Apple is slightly different: it will exclude certain products from the PC market (eg Shake) to help boost Mac presence in a particular market. It foregoes a fair amount of revenue, which MS would never do.

voodoo · Aug 11, 2004, 04:35 PM

Looks liks xp sp2 is right around the corner. Check this page out though: http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx

look below the pulldown menu where you choose your operating system

Macintosh computer users, get security information
on the Apple security site.

SplijinX · Aug 12, 2004, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
Looks liks xp sp2 is right around the corner. Check this page out though: http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx

look below the pulldown menu where you choose your operating system

XP SP2 has already been released to IT Pros and Devel: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

Been swamped with emails at work to not install it though cause some of the new implementations interferes with network-based applications and make them stop functioning.

The release for everyday users should be out for download shortly though, hopefully this means VPC7 will be here shortly.

KraziKid · Aug 12, 2004, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by eevyl:
Just checked, it's not.

Uhm, it has been released. Here . This is what is commonly referred to as the network install, but it also works on single installs. This is the final code for SP2, and it is released. The only difference between this and the single computer install, is the single is where the sp only downloads the patches you need, rather than all 260ish MB's.

voodoo · Aug 12, 2004, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by KraziKid:
Uhm, it has been released. Here . This is what is commonly referred to as the network install, but it also works on single installs. This is the final code for SP2, and it is released. The only difference between this and the single computer install, is the single is where the sp only downloads the patches you need, rather than all 260ish MB's.

So.. Microsith release the 'combo' updates before the standalones.

sbc · Aug 12, 2004, 02:06 PM

What are the expected features in VPC7?

Angus_D · Aug 14, 2004, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Considering MS is a monopoly, I think Apple, the underdog, needs people like me.

Yeah, Apple needs zealots that foam at the mouth like a moose needs a hat.

Apple is allowed to do stuff Microsoft isn't because it is not a monopoly in any market. Maybe the internet music store market...but even that is arguable.

Yeah, OK, that's a good argument. "We can be evil because other people are more evil!"

Office for Mac (even 2004) is ****ing terrible...don't tell me it's good.

AppleWorks is better?

Angus_D · Aug 14, 2004, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by sbc:
What are the expected features in VPC7?

I don't think anything has been confirmed beyond G5 support. I thought I'd heard something about graphics card emulation, but I can't find any reference to that now I look (perhaps I'm just not looking hard enough

).

Eug Wanker · Aug 14, 2004, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Angus_D:
I don't think anything has been confirmed beyond G5 support. I thought I'd heard something about graphics card emulation, but I can't find any reference to that now I look (perhaps I'm just not looking hard enough ).

G5 support, a bit more speed, and usability tweaks. Not a chance for 3D card support, despite macbidouille's claim. (I originally posted this here.)

Person Man · Aug 31, 2004, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
G5 support, a bit more speed, and usability tweaks. Not a chance for 3D card support, despite macbidouille's claim. (I originally posted this here.)

Well, Microsoft has released VPC 7 to manufacturing, according to a MacNN article from yesterday. I find this line particularly interesting:

"Sources tell MacNN that Microsoft's Virtual PC 7 will bring better for support for (USB) peripherals, speed improvements, G5 compatibility, dual-processor support, and better native support for graphic cards."

Now, it still remains to be seen what "better native support for graphic cards" means...

Microsoft's Mac page even lists Virtual PC prices:

VPC 7 with XP professional: $249
VPC 7 with XP home: $219
VPC 7 with Windows 2000 professional: $249
VPC 7 Standalone (install your own OS): $129
VPC 7 Upgrades: $99

We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

shortyes · Sep 30, 2004, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Person Man:
Well, Microsoft has released VPC 7 to manufacturing, according to a MacNN article from yesterday. I find this line particularly interesting:

"Sources tell MacNN that Microsoft's Virtual PC 7 will bring better for support for (USB) peripherals, speed improvements, G5 compatibility, dual-processor support, and better native support for graphic cards."

Now, it still remains to be seen what "better native support for graphic cards" means...

Microsoft's Mac page even lists Virtual PC prices:

VPC 7 with XP professional: $249
VPC 7 with XP home: $219
VPC 7 with Windows 2000 professional: $249
VPC 7 Standalone (install your own OS): $129
VPC 7 Upgrades: $99

We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

Has there been any updates to this? Is there any native support for video cards? So the standalone you install a version of MS XP you have? It just lets you install the OS?

Angus_D · Sep 30, 2004, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by shortyes:
Has there been any updates to this? Is there any native support for video cards? So the standalone you install a version of MS XP you have? It just lets you install the OS?

VPC 7 is out, I think. No, there isn't any native video card support. The standalone version is what it says, it's standalone, you supply your own OS.