[icibaqu]

hey there

so i've just run into a problem while trying to do research for using lexisnexis with the Safari browser. w/o going into specifics about the problem (i'm missing some "tabs" on search pages) the tech support people told me that the problem has to do with how Macs work with Java vs. how windows works with Java.

so i wonder if swtiching browsers will make a difference.
the options, as i see them, are going go Firefox or going to Opera

anyone know anything about how these browsers work with Java, and if its different than safari, or if it's just how Macs themselves work w/ java?

sorry, kinda bizzare question, kinda hypertechnical, but it is what it is.

thanks

gabriel

[Graymalkin]

I can't get the search tabs to come up in any browser on my Powerbook on LexisNexis' search site. I tried Safari 1.2, Camino 0.8, and IE 5.2 and none of them displayed the side navigation tabs. I would suspect the tabs were made using IE 6 specific JavaScript code and as such will not work on any Mac browsers. You're also a little confused, the tabs are rendered with JavaScript, not Java. Despite the names they are entirely unrelated technologies.

Switching browsers isn't likely to do you much good, Camino uses the same rendering engine as Firefox and Opera isn't too likely to work properly either. Unfortunately this looks like it is one of those situations where a site designer decided to use the de facto standard of Internet Explorer for Windows and decided to ignore everyone else.

[stephenh]

Considering that java is supposed to be cross platform, I fail to see how this could be the case. Unless it is some shoddy programming on their part.

Just to be clear, you are talking about Java and not Javascript?

Anyway, assuming they are talking about Java, Safari uses a different plugin than Firefox and Opera, so they may exhibit different behavior. Firefox has a console that logs errors, so this may be of some help in determining the actual problem.

Just try them out and see what the problem is. Does Lexis Nexus really use Java?

[stephenh]

Graymalkin beat me to it. I am rather shocked that something like Lexis Nexus would use proprietary IE code rather than make something DOM compliant.

I also find it funny that they blame it on the Macs, and not their crap coding. It has nothing to do with Mac OS, it would break on any non IE browser.

If someone does use Firefox you could check the JSConsole and see what the script is doing wrong. It may be that the script would work perfectly fine in Firefox or Safari but they have some kind of User-agent sniffing that breaks it.

[Sarc]

link ?

btw. try Opera, it has the most compatible JS engine around.

[icibaqu]

yeah sorry i guess i meant javascript. i was going on what my girlfriend told me (she was the one on the phone).

but either way, i think it might also be that when lexisnexis detects that you have a Mac it uploads certain settings. probably since the majority of users are on IE they run new edits/improvements to the seach engine on that and then add it to mac's as needed.

but thanks for the tips so far.

[cpac]

Lexis (and Westlaw) are far from above putting windows IE only javascripts into their code. They get away with it because they can. However, the more times people complain, the more likely they'll be to remove and/or standardize that code - so send feedback.

[Graymalkin]

Definitely send them feedback on the issue. It is the fault of lazy web designers and programmers when pages don't work in anything but IE on Windows. There's plenty of people who don't use IE on Windows and excluding those people is ridiculous.

[icibaqu]

Originally posted by cpac:
Lexis (and Westlaw) are far from above putting windows IE only javascripts into their code. They get away with it because they can. However, the more times people complain, the more likely they'll be to remove and/or standardize that code - so send feedback.

funny that you mention westlaw, cuz safari always hangs on westlaw after like 5 or 6 clicks into the search. it's VERY frustrating!

[Sarc]

anyone care to provide a link ?

[icibaqu]

www.lexisnexis.com

www.westlaw.com

but you need to be registered with them, so it's kinda pointless.

[Chris O'Brien]

Does enabling the debug menu in Safari (typing defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1 in the terminal) and switching the user agent to 'Windows MSIE 6.0' help?

Of course, it would only make a difference if they are just browser sniffing to serve up different pages, and won't help at all if they are using MSIE proprietary JScript stuff... Might give you access to some extra links though - who knows?

[cpac]

no no - their browser sniffing code is not excluding the browsers, its just that certain aspects of their interface only work with windows IE.

FWIW, I hate that all of it doesn't work as advertised, but that said,it is only with the minority of searches. I used primarily Westlaw with OmniWeb throughout law school (which means every version of OW 4.0-4.5, and it worked very well.

[theolein]

Originally posted by cpac:
no no - their browser sniffing code is not excluding the browsers, its just that certain aspects of their interface only work with windows IE.

FWIW, I hate that all of it doesn't work as advertised, but that said,it is only with the minority of searches. I used primarily Westlaw with OmniWeb throughout law school (which means every version of OW 4.0-4.5, and it worked very well.

I just took a look at the lexisnexis site's sourcecode and someone messed up a bit there with their jsp engine. One page has at least 5! doctype declarations, and another has none. In the Javascript there I didn't see any incompatible code, but maybe on the search page they use the document.all object which is IE only. If you have a subscription, look at the page's source and do a quick search to see if that's the case.

[cpac]

now that I'm no longer a student - I can't check for free (I'd have to charge somebody). But there have to be some law students reading this board that can check for free...