[kent m]

Is there away to do this? Now don't ask "Why", but it has something to do with trying to make the program as simple to use as possible for someone's grandfather.

If you have any clues please let me know.

Thanks very much,
Kent

[Big Mac]

There does not seem to be one that is graphically accessible, sorry. But there is a remote possibility that there's some hidden variable in Mail's plist that could effect the visibility of the field. I'll look for some information. Btw, I know how hard it can be to train some grandparents to use computers - you're not alone.

[kcmac]

The main challenge in working with someone, no matter what age, is knowing when you are approaching information overload.

Just try slowing down a little, explain things that you may skip over because it is second nature to you, and most important, let them try it while you are talking them through it.

If he is confused about what CC means, find out what that apprehension is. Let him send an email to himself so he can see what happens. Try it with him in the "To" section as well as in the "CC" section.

If you tell him to ignore the CC section, that he won't need it because he can simply put everyone in the To section, he will be skeptical.

I know this is not what you are looking for in an answer but it will make things easier in the long run as this person eventually wants to learn more things on their computer.

[larkost]

From a technical standpoint, it looks like the answer is a solid "no, there is no easy way of doing this". I took a look at the nibs that make up that interface, and that component is made up of a custom view that is setup programatically. So you would have to have the source code to Mail.app in order to change it. There is a very small chance that there is a hidden 'default write' command for this, but you would have to find someone on the Mail.app team, and get lucky enough that someone happened to decide to do that.

One of the Mail.app team does occasionally hang out on OmniGroup's MacOS X Talk list, but...

[kent m]

Hello,

Thanks for the reponses.

I've had him using the computer for some time, but it's difficult. He's just over 90 and the proceedure is not exactly coming easily. I've tried to simplify the system about as much as I can - there's nothing left of the Mail ui except for the Delete, Reply and Send buttons - and it's been set up so that clicking an icon of a face in the dock will start a new message to that person, but there are still a few variables I'd like to remove from the equasion and this was one of them.

It may sound odd to anyone who's used a computer for a long time, but it's the unexpected little things that throw the course off track, and it's been a real learning experience for me. The problem with the CC field is that on occasion he'll type the subject info into that field and when he tries to send the mail it'll report - naturally, you'll say - that the addressee ("Hello", usually) can't be found and etc and that freezes the process, for days often.

The thing is that no matter how many times a thing is explained, under pressure we often revert to the first impression we had of the way things work. In this case he's not familiar with the concept of CC, and forgets, and if I could just remove this CC field it sure would make the process simpler.


Thanks again,
Kent

Originally posted by kcmac:
The main challenge in working with someone, no matter what age, is knowing when you are approaching information overload.

Just try slowing down a little, explain things that you may skip over because it is second nature to you, and most important, let them try it while you are talking them through it.

If he is confused about what CC means, find out what that apprehension is. Let him send an email to himself so he can see what happens. Try it with him in the "To" section as well as in the "CC" section.

If you tell him to ignore the CC section, that he won't need it because he can simply put everyone in the To section, he will be skeptical.

I know this is not what you are looking for in an answer but it will make things easier in the long run as this person eventually wants to learn more things on their computer.

[Xeo]

Well, the BCC header is controlled by a boolean key called "ShowBccHeader". I tried setting "ShowCcHeader" to false but that didn't work. In my efforts I ended up trashing my mail pref file (mail wrote over it for me) so I had to set all that up from scratch. Ah well, I use IMAP.

[philm]

This might be construed as rather patronising, but have you thought about something like Kidzmail ? It has a very simple interface without a CC. It's all a bit kiddified of course, but you can probably tweak some aspects of the interface to make it look more 'grown-up'.

I'm not sure if you should change the name of an application directly, but you could stick an alias in the Dock and call it whatever you want (e.g. 'Proper grown-up adult Mail')

[kcmac]

Sounds like you are a patient and good person kent. Keep at it.

[chrisford]

Hi Kent M

It's an interesting challenge trying to explain how software features that we take for granted to an older generation.

In this case, I wonder if using the term 'Carbon Copy' to explain 'CC' might make it a little clearer; for a man of that generation, the phrase might be familiar. I certainly remember an old teacher I used to have (who must be around 80-90 nowadays) cranking an old carbon copier to duplicate class notes when I was a kid.

Hmm... that probably shows more about my age than anything else...



c

[kent m]

Hi,

Not patronising at all. Thanks for the link.

I've tried it out and - I find that the KidzMail is actually more confusing of an interface than a stripped down version of Mail. Funny, that. Buttons and tabs always visible and not entirely inutitable.

I'll keep working on it, though, see what I get.

Thanks again,
Kent

Originally posted by philm:
This might be construed as rather patronising, but have you thought about something like Kidzmail ? It has a very simple interface without a CC. It's all a bit kiddified of course, but you can probably tweak some aspects of the interface to make it look more 'grown-up'.

I'm not sure if you should change the name of an application directly, but you could stick an alias in the Dock and call it whatever you want (e.g. 'Proper grown-up adult Mail')

[ambush]

Remove it in interface builder

[Gee4orce]

Originally posted by ambush:
Remove it in interface builder

Something tells me you haven't been reading this thread...