[zigzag]

I'm looking for a WYSIWYG web design app. Composer and Nvu are free and seem to be pretty good tools, but I'm wondering if it's worth spending $89 for Freeway Express. Can anyone tell me if it has substantially more features/functionality, and if so, of what sort? Since I'm brand new at this, I'd especially like more hand-holding, and would be willing to pay for it.

I've sampled Rapid Weaver and Site Studio and think their templates are fugly.

Thanks.

P.S. Yes, I searched the other threads.

[Angus_D]

It's a completely different application than Composer or Nvu. You can download a trial version of Freeway Express and compare it, if you want.

Composer and Nvu are basic HTML editors. Freeway works much more like a DTP program, so you are free to position things where you want etc, put common navigation elemnts on master pages, overlay images with each other...

[mania]

so you probably don't want to hear this but it really is best to learn to hand code xhtml and css - you will thank yourself in the long run, expecially if you want to add php or javascript to your site. try w3schools.com. wysiwyg editors tend to produce crap code. i call them goevil, dreamonweaver, composter and frontrage.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by mania:
wysiwyg editors tend to produce crap code. i call them goevil, dreamonweaver, composter and frontrage.

Have you looked at Freeway's generated code? It's actually quite legible.

[mania]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
Have you looked at Freeway's generated code? It's actually quite legible.

I have not, thats probably why i didn't call it noway.

[Simon X]

Freeway is a very fine app. It produces very efficient "cross-browser" code and is a pleasure to use. It uses a completely different metaphor compared to other WYSIWYG web apps, more akin to a DTP app, as it is an HTML generator and not an HTML editor. But you've probably know this already.

Something to bear in mind with FW is the excellent support you will receive from the developers and from its users - we are a really helpful bunch. Where else can you post a question to the mailing list and have someone emailing you back personally asking for the details as they might be able to modify one of the private Actions for your specific needs? Or have the mailing list moderator passes your post over to tech support who then email you back to help out? Both of these have occurred to me on a number of occasions. Likewise I've replied to two emails this week from fellow FW users on an how-to article I wrote and have been helped many times by other users.

If your needs are simple then FWE might be sufficient. Personally I couldn't use it but then again I need something more advanced and therefore use the Pro version. I'm too dependant on many of the third-party Actions (kind of like extensions. some free, some paid for) which only work in the Pro version - FWE can only use the Actions installed with the application. You can though use the Graphics or Navigation FAST packs sold by Softpress. Don't let this put you off - I only mention it now because many FWE users don't fully read the feature list and wonder why the Action they downloaded doesn't work.

But go for FWE now and if at a later date you require more you can always upgrade. And any questions you might have just join the mailing list and ask away.

[mania]

still didn't download it but it looks like it does not even output XHTML, only HTML 4? from this page http://www.softpress.com/en/freeway/express_or_pro

that would be a show stopper.

[Simon X]

Originally posted by mania:
still didn't download it but it looks like it does not even output XHTML, only HTML 4? from this page http://www.softpress.com/en/freeway/express_or_pro

that would be a show stopper.

For you maybe. HTML 4 hasn't suddenly stooped working now that XHTML has appeared. As I said earlier - FW generates efficient "cross-browser" code which thereofre mans it takes liberties with the code. Someone in fact has written an Action for FW Pro which modifies the code to XHTML, or as good as you will get with FW. Softpress have stated there will be a major upgrade which will address this and many other issues, but that will be later in the year.

And anyway, I don't want to get into discussing the merits of hand coding or XHTML. If you want valid XHTML then fine, but it is still ok to use HTML 4 code. (So do I want valid XHTML but am prepared to wait since I don't want to code by hand)

[Millennium]

Originally posted by mania:
still didn't download it but it looks like it does not even output XHTML, only HTML 4? from this page http://www.softpress.com/en/freeway/express_or_pro

that would be a show stopper.

One can be standards-compliant without using XHTML. HTML is also a standard, and XHTML currently offers few if any real advantages over HTML. This may change as browsers start supporting more standards -particularly mixed XHTML/SVG- but currently there isn't any real reason to use it. This said, what Freeway outputs is neither XHTML nor any standard of HTML. I would avoid it for that reason. Stick with Composer or Nvu on the low end; if you go high-end then DreamWeaver has some add-ons which will let it produce completely compliant code, and I believe GoLive does as well.

You really should learn how to code HTML by hand, though. Even if you never actually hand-code your own sites, knowing how everything works will serve you quite well.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by Millennium:
This said, what Freeway outputs is neither XHTML nor any standard of HTML.

Largely, Freeway's code generation is designed for the previous era of web browsers, so actually it's kind of "real-world standards compliant" circa pre-XHTML . I believe some users have written actions which will help you achieve compliance with standards checkers.

If you're worried about it from a rendering perspective, the places where it breaks the standards is so that it'll render correctly (working around bugs in browsers and stuff), really. If you have a valid reason for requiring it, then the current version of Freeway is probably not for you.